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target="_blank" class="share-icon d-none d-sm-inline-flex" aria-label="Share on WhatsApp"> <i class="fab fa-whatsapp"></i> </a> </div> </div> </div> <!-- Story Content --> <div class="story-content" id="dg_story"> <div class="dark-link perm_post"> 坠入我早已身处的黑暗之中。</p><p>有一位朋友，每天下午四点左右，在征得我的同意后，都会来我家，让我坐在客厅的椅子上，脱掉我的鞋袜，然后按摩我的脚。他几乎从不说话——他是一位贵格会长老——但凭借着他的直觉，偶尔会说几句简短的话，比如：“我能感受到你今天的挣扎”，或者，过段时间，会说：“我觉得你现在比之前强壮了一些，我为此感到高兴。”除此之外，他几乎什么也不说。他不会给我任何建议。他只是偶尔会告诉我他凭直觉感受到的我的状况。不知怎的，他找到了我身体上唯一能让我感受到与另一个人之间某种联系的地方，那就是我的脚底。而按摩这件事本身——以一种我真的无法用语言形容的方式——让我与人类保持着联系。</p><p>当然，他为我做的最重要的事，就是愿意在我痛苦的时候陪伴我。他用一种非常安静、非常简单、却又充满关怀的方式，默默地守候着我。我一直都找不到合适的词语来充分表达我对他的感激之情，但我知道这意义非凡。对我而言，这象征着我们需要为那些正在经历这种痛苦的人们建立的社群：一个既不窥探痛苦的奥秘，也不回避痛苦，而是愿意将人们拥入一个空间——一个神圣的、充满关系的空间——在那里，即使身处黑暗面的人也能获得一丝信心，相信自己终有一天会走出困境。</p><p> [<em>音乐：雅各布·蒙塔古的《旅行者》</em> ]</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士：</b>我是克丽斯塔·蒂佩特，这里是<em>《论存在》</em> 。</p><p>抑郁贯穿于各种文化的文学和诗歌之中。从古希腊到中世纪的阿拉伯世界，再到现代西方，人们常常用“忧郁症”（melancholia）一词来指代它。《希伯来圣经》的诗篇作者反复提及“绝望的深渊”。16世纪的西班牙神秘主义者十字若望写下了“灵魂的黑夜”这一说法。此外，佛教文献中也涌现出越来越多的关于此类主题的作品。我的下一位嘉宾安妮塔·巴罗斯（Anita Barrows）一生大部分时间都在修习上座部佛教，她自幼便与抑郁症相伴，尤其是在与母亲共同生活期间。</p><p> <b><img alt="" src="https://i1.wp.com/api.onbeing.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/barrows.jpg?resize=360%2C360%20360w%22" style="border-style:solid; border-width:1px; float:left; height:200px; margin:7px; width:200px" />巴罗斯女士</b>：我母亲常说，“我跟上帝说话。我直接跟上帝说话，他会回应我。” 我小时候总觉得上帝是个胡子拉碴、穿着睡袍的老头，他能直接跟我母亲西尔维娅通话，但却没怎么帮她。[<em>笑</em>] 我总是想，“既然她能直接跟上帝通话，为什么他不让她好起来呢？”</p><p>我听说我母亲长期卧床是因为脚上长了疣。这说法挺奇怪的。而且这些疣的名字很奇妙，是个意大利语名字——“verruca”，听起来有点像希伯来语的祈祷文“Baruch atah”。[<em>笑</em>] 所以我对这个词很感兴趣。</p><p>但我会坐在母亲卧室门外，听着她的哭声，或者只是等着她醒来，这几乎就是我童年的全部经历。我甚至记得，走进门的那一刻，一种非常强烈的感受。在我童年的中期，大约七岁到十岁之间，我们住在公寓里。我记得走进门，能真切地感受到一种氛围的变化：外面是生机勃勃的世界，我热爱那里——无论天气如何，我都喜欢待在户外——而走进屋里，我却感到一种渗透的黑暗。那是我母亲的抑郁症。</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士</b>：这真是一个绝妙的意象。你已经触及到了我想努力阐明的一点，那就是：抑郁症是我们许多人都经历过的，无论是自己经历还是通过他人经历。我们从医学角度和心理学角度谈论它，但“渗透的黑暗”——它确实很好地描述了抑郁症所笼罩的那种阴霾的完整性。</p><p><b>巴罗斯女士</b>：是的，它是可渗透的，因为我可以自己走进去，也可以把手伸进去感受一下。我想，我母亲一生都在与这种状态相伴；对我来说，这种状态也很熟悉，尽管我的体验方式与母亲不同。</p><p> [<em>音乐：《东京鬼故事》，作曲：Arovane</em> ]</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士：</b>安妮塔·巴罗斯17岁离家上大学后，第一次与抑郁症作斗争。31岁时，她盼望已久的第一个孩子出生后，病情急剧恶化。那次抑郁症是由器质性病变引起的——甲状腺自身免疫性疾病；经过多次误诊后，最终确诊为一种很容易治疗的疾病。但就像所有受抑郁症困扰的人一样，无论其诱因或表现形式如何，安妮塔·巴罗斯的生活中都留下了这种疾病的印记，但她积极地接受了它。</p><p>作为一名心理学家，她告诫人们，佛教对内心黑暗的接纳在临床抑郁症的深渊中可能令人恐惧，甚至危险。但与安德鲁·所罗门和帕克·帕尔默一样，她珍视光明与黑暗的交织，将其视为人生的普遍特征。她通过诗歌创作和翻译他人的作品来探索这一主题。安妮塔·巴罗斯与佛教学者乔安娜·梅西合作，创作了莱纳·玛利亚·里尔克《<em>时祷书</em>》的精彩译本——也是我最喜欢的译本。作为一位既是心理学家又是语言爱好者的人，她抱怨说，“抑郁”一词本身不足以恰当地描述这种人类体验。</p><p><b>巴罗斯女士</b>：这几乎成了一种回避的方式。我更倾向于把它看作是一种小调和弦，始终伴随着我的人生。我……</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士</b>：对任何生命而言？还是对某个人的生命而言……</p><p><b>巴罗斯女士</b>：对许多人来说——嗯，我想是对那些倾向于此的人来说。里尔克热爱黑暗，他有很多诗都以某种方式描绘黑暗，而我认为，这正是吸引我阅读这些诗歌的原因。我可以读一首吗？“我热爱我生命中的黑暗时刻。/我的思绪沉浸其中。/在那里，我如同在旧信件中一般，/找到了我生命中那些已逝的日子，/它们如同传说般被铭记，被理解。/然后，顿悟到来：我可以敞开心扉，/迎接另一种广阔而永恒的生命。/因此，我有时像一棵树，/在墓地上沙沙作响，/将它活着的根/所拥抱的那个人的梦想变为现实：/一个曾经在悲伤和歌声中遗失的梦想。”</p><p> “我喜欢我生命中的黑暗时刻，”他说。“我想，我的人生中肯定也曾有过情绪低落的时候——‘情绪低落’这个词真可怕——那种阴郁的情绪。”</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士：</b>我知道。</p><p><b>巴罗斯女士：</b>这个词如今承载了太多负面的含义，几乎成了医学术语。我想把它从医学和临床的语境中解放出来。抑郁症的某个阶段极其痛苦，只有在事后回想起来，人们才会说：“我很高兴自己跌到了谷底，因为现在我终于明白那是什么滋味了。” 但这种与黑暗共存的状态，对我来说却无比熟悉，我认为它是一种非常精神的体验。在这种状态下，会经历一种成熟的过程：一种平静，一种聆听；一种无为的状态。</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士</b>：嗯，还有，对某种活动能给你带来什么的幻想也破灭了。</p><p><b>巴罗斯女士</b>：正是如此。在那种地方，你所能做的就是坐着，聆听，存在——保持最纯粹的状态。里尔克再次说道：“现在要谦逊，像一件成熟到真正存在的事物一样，这样，创造你的神在伸手寻找你的时候就能找到你。”</p><p> [<em>音乐：This Patch of Sky 的《冬日黄昏》</em> ]</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士</b>：这是安妮塔·巴罗斯朗诵的莱纳·玛利亚·里尔克《<em>时祷书》</em>中的一首诗，这首诗是她与乔安娜·梅西共同翻译的。</p><p><b>多发性硬化症。 巴罗斯</b>：“你并不惊讶于风暴的威力——/你已目睹它不断壮大。/树木逃离。它们的逃窜/使林荫大道水流奔涌。你知道：/它们逃离的，正是/你追随的。/你站在窗前，/所有的感官都在歌颂他。/夏日的时光仿佛静止。/树木的血液涌动。如今你感到/它想要沉回/万物之源。你曾以为/摘下果实时，你可以信赖那股力量；/如今它又成了谜，/你又成了陌生人。/夏天就像你的家：/你知道每样东西的位置。/如今你必须走出家门，走进你的内心，/如同走进一片广袤的平原。如今/巨大的孤独开始了。/日子变得麻木，风/像吸走枯叶一样，从你的感官中吸走世界。/透过空荡荡的枝桠，天空依然存在。/这就是你所拥有的。/现在就成为大地，成为晚祷。/成为那片天空下的土地。/保持谦逊。”现在，就像一件事物/成熟到真实，/这样，当那位开启这一切的人/当他伸手去触碰你时，就能感受到你。</p><p> [<em>音乐：This Patch of Sky 的《冬日黄昏》</em> ]</p><p><b>巴罗斯女士</b>：突然间，在抑郁症中，你感觉自己被从生活中剥离出来，从感觉正确、熟悉、平衡、平凡和有序的生活中剥离出来，你被扔到一个饱受摧残的地方，在那里，风会把树叶从树上扯下来，你就在那里——非常非常地陷入了抑郁症的灵魂。</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士</b>：还有“陌生人”这个词，它不仅指与他人完全疏离，也指与自己完全疏离。</p><p><b>巴罗斯女士</b>：啊，正是来自自身。这才是最糟糕的。</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士</b>：我不知道——这里存在一个悖论，它贯穿了我所有关于这个话题的讨论和思考——你又提到了它，那就是抑郁最终可以带来成熟、成长、某种精神上的领悟和更广阔的灵魂，有些人可能会这么说。但在当下——在那种体验的深处——这种反思是完全不可能的。</p><p><b>巴罗斯女士</b>：是的，正是如此。</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士</b>：我的意思是，这是什么意思？这是什么？</p><p><b>巴罗斯女士</b>：没错。不，我觉得你说得完全正确。所有关于“哦，这对你的灵魂或品格真的很有好处，这会让你成为一个更好的人”之类的说法，当你深陷抑郁的痛苦之中时，听起来简直是胡说八道。但我认为，在某种程度上，这几乎是一种生理现象。如果灵魂是物质的，我认为抑郁对它的作用就像你塑造一块黏土一样，让它变软，变得更有可塑性，变得更宽广，能够容纳更多。</p><p>但那只是之后的事。在火中，你得到的只有火本身。</p><p> [<em>音乐：“G tintinabulum”，作曲：Chapelier Fou</em> ]</p><p><b>巴罗斯女士</b>：这是一首名为《这堵墙》（Questo Muro）的诗。它出自但丁《<em>炼狱篇</em>》中的一段文字。但丁曾深陷抑郁的深渊，身处地狱的深渊，如今他正努力挣脱，走向贝阿特丽切——你可以称她为灵魂或阿尼玛。他和维吉尔攀登着这座山，突然间，他们来到了一堵火墙前，除非穿过它，否则无法继续前进。这就是我的诗。我认为，这首诗实际上是关于找到勇气坚持下去，穿越那道烈火的。</p><p> 《这堵墙》——“你会在小径的拐角处/看到一堵火焰之墙/在艰难的攀登和疲惫的梦境之后/你会来到一个地方，/与你一路同行的人/会停下脚步，/站在你身旁/在这险峻陡峭的小路上/凝视着你颤抖着，凝视着那移动的墙，那火焰/它阻挡了你对未来/的视线。而那个/你以为会永远陪伴你的人，/曾温柔地捧着你的脸/片刻——/将手掌按在湿漉漉的草地上/拭去你脸颊上的泪痕——/他现在告诉你/横亘在你和/你从一开始就知道的一切之间的，/就是这堵墙。在你和/爱人之间，在你和你的快乐之间，/河岸上野花摇曳，/阳光洒在岩石上，/歌声之间。/你现在会穿过它吗？你会让它吞噬/你称之为/你的一切坚固吗？”生命，并将你送出去，一丝热浪，一道光芒，一个改变的，闪烁的事物？</p><p> [<em>音乐：《Baby Saige》，演唱者：The Album Leaf</em> ]</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士：</b>安妮塔·巴罗斯的诗作《这堵墙》。她最新的诗集是<em>《我们就是饥饿》</em> 。她与乔安娜·梅西合译了<em>里尔克的《时祷书：献给上帝的情诗</em>》。最后，我们摘录安妮塔·巴罗斯的诗作《心之作》的最后几行。</p><p><b>巴罗斯女士</b>：“有些东西/原本停滞不前/开始移动：一片叶子/被水流/推向岩石/挣脱束缚，/再次找到方向/穿过流动的水。光线的角度/很低，但仍然充满/我们身处的这片空间。打断我的/有时是丰盈。我的悲伤，/在整个夏天不断增长/今天早上感觉/仿佛如果我触摸它/它粗壮的深色茎/与根连接的地方，/它就会完整地释放出来，/成为我可以利用的东西。”</p><p> [<em>音乐：《Baby Saige》，演唱者：The Album Leaf</em> ]</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士</b>：在本小时节目早些时候，您听到了帕克·帕尔默和安德鲁·所罗门的访谈。帕克在他的著作《<em>让生命说话</em>》中探讨了抑郁症。他的新书<em>《万物边缘：恩典、引力与衰老》</em>即将出版。</p><p>安德鲁·所罗门是<em>《正午的恶魔：抑郁症图谱》</em>的作者。他近期的作品包括<em>《远离树木：父母、子女与身份认同的追寻》</em> 。</p><p>这些人通过抑郁症获得的反思和学习，是时间的馈赠。如果您或您认识的人正遭受抑郁症的困扰，请温和地寻求帮助。美国国家心理健康研究所 (NIMH) 的网站是 nimh.nih.gov。美国国家精神疾病联盟 (NAMI) 提供有关当地支持和资源的信息。他们的电话号码是 1 (800) 950-6264 或 1 (800) 950-NAMI。</p><p> [<em>音乐：“Sky Could Undress”，演唱者：Balmorhea</em> ]</p><p><b>工作人员：《</b> <em>On Being》的</em>主演包括 Chris Heagle、Lily Percy、Mariah Helgeson、Maia Tarrell、Marie Sambilay、Malka Fenyvesi、Erinn Farrell、Lauren Dørdal、Tony Liu、Brettina Davis、Bethany Iverson、Erin Colasacco、Kristin Lin 和 Jeffrey Bissoy。</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士：</b>我们优美的主题曲由佐伊·基廷创作并演唱。而您在每集节目结尾听到的片尾字幕演唱者，则是嘻哈歌手莉佐。</p> </div> </div> <!-- Story Credits --> <!-- Original Story Link (if viewing lens) --> <!-- Inline Share Section --> <div class="inline-share-icons border-0 mt-0 pt-0"> <div class="d-flex align-items-center"> <span class="me-3 fw-semibold">Share this story:</span> <div> <a href="http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F2014%2Fthe-soul-in-depression-on-being%2F" target="_blank" class="share-icon" aria-label="Share on 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