Michael Lerner Has Been Synthesizing His Spiritual and Social

The MOON: Can you give an example of a time that you were able to do that even though it was difficult?

Lerner: Well, I mean, I’ve–

The MOON: Done it all your life, I know [laughter].

Lerner: Yeah. As part of my work with the Institute for Labor and Mental Health, for many years I facilitated small groups of people who met together weekly for about 10 weeks, during which many of the participants had amazing transformations. It’s not a process that can be easily summarized, so I say again, “Go take the training.”

I can share with you one interesting incident, though. In the early 200s, I wrote an op-ed in response to some right-wingers who were saying that the civil liberties people and the Jews were stealing Christmas by insisting that religious Christmas celebrations and iconography shouldn’t be in public space all the time. My op-ed said this was a false charge. Fox News host Bill O’Reilly invited me to be on his show to talk with him about this, and my friends said, “Don’t go. It’s a set-up. He won’t let you speak. He’s famous for interrupting people.”

Nevertheless, I accepted and went on the show, and as soon as he said, “You and the civil libertarians, are all robbing us of Christmas,” I said, “You know, you’re right. Somebody is robbing us of the spiritual and ethical message that underlies Christmas, but it’s not the Jews or civil libertarians. It’s the capitalist ethos of this society, which tells people that their value is in how much they can afford to spend in gifts to show others that they care about them, rather than any other way of caring. It’s really the ethos of capitalism that is undermining Christmas, along with our capacity to value other human beings in non-material terms.” Well, the guy was flabbergasted. He said, “Wow. I’ve never heard anybody say that. You’re right, Rabbi Lerner. That’s true.” And so [laughter]–

The MOON: That’s awesome.

Lerner: Yeah. So it was a very different exchange than he expected, and it was an example of changing our communications by stepping into the perspective of the other, so that our communications, too, can be received.

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