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<div class="story-meta-left"> <div class="story-logo"> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org"> <img alt="DailyGood" src="https://www.karunanews.org/pics/90x90.jpg"> </a> </div> <div class="story-meta-info"> <div class="story-author">By <a href="/author?name=On%20Being">On Being</a></div> <div class="story-details"> <span class="story-date">Dec 3, 2018</span> <span class="story-read-time">13 min read</span> </div> <div class="story-source">Source: <a href="https://onbeing.org/programs/brian-greene-reimagining-the-cosmos-jun2017/" target="_blank">onbeing.org</a></div> </div> </div>  <div class="story-meta-right">  <div class="utility-buttons"> <div class="dropdown"> <button class="utility-btn translate-btn dropdown-toggle py-1" type="button" id="translationDropdown" data-bs-toggle="dropdown" aria-expanded="false"> <i class="fa fa-language me-2" aria-hidden="true"></i>Swahili </button> <ul class="dropdown-menu dropdown-menu-end translation-dropdown" aria-labelledby="translationDropdown" 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class="fab fa-linkedin-in"></i> </a> <a href="https://api.whatsapp.com/send?text=%3Cp%3E%3C%2Fp%3E%3Ciframe+frameborder%3D%22no%22+height%3D%22300%22+scrolling%3D%22no%22+src%3D%22https%3A%2F%2Fw.soundcloud.com%2Fplayer%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F325531486%26amp%3Bcolor%3D%2523ff5500%26amp%3Bauto_play%3Dfalse%26amp%3Bhide_related%3Dfalse%26amp%3Bshow_comments%3Dtrue%26amp%3Bshow_user%3Dtrue%26am%20%3A%20viumbe+ili+kuingiza+ndani+masomo+ya+sayansi.+Bw.+Greene%3A+Hapana%2C+lazima+ujifunze+hesabu.+%5B+kicheko+%5D+Bi.+Tippett%3A+Namaanisha%2C+ulisema+mara+moja+-+ulisema+kw%20https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F1766%2Freimagining-the-cosmos-on-being%2F" target="_blank" class="share-icon d-none d-sm-inline-flex" aria-label="Share on WhatsApp"> <i class="fab fa-whatsapp"></i> </a> </div> </div> </div>  <div class="story-content" id="dg_story"> <div class="dark-link perm_post"> viumbe ili kuingiza ndani masomo ya sayansi.</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Hapana, lazima ujifunze hesabu.</p><p> [ <em>kicheko</em> ]</p><p> <b>Bi. Tippett:</b> Namaanisha, ulisema mara moja - ulisema kwamba kutathmini maisha kupitia lenzi ya uzoefu wa kila siku - na ulimaanisha ukweli ni nini - ni kama kumwangalia Van Gogh kupitia lenzi ya chupa tupu ya Coke.</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Ndiyo, sawa. Nilisema hivyo? Nadhani hiyo si sitiari mbaya.</p><p> <b>Bi. Tippett:</b> [ <em>anacheka</em> ] Sawa, lakini sawa, ninamaanisha…</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Kuna mafumbo bora zaidi. Lakini, ndio. Nadhani ni - jambo ambalo tunapaswa kutambua ni kwamba tangu miaka ya 1800, tumejifunza somo hilo. Tunaweza kufanya hesabu kwa kutumia quantum mechanics hadi 10 desimali, 2-point-chochote - 13596 - 10 desimali. Hayo ni matokeo ya hesabu ya hisabati. Kisha tunatoka na kupima sifa za sumaku, na tunapata kwamba tarakimu kwa tarakimu kwa tarakimu, maeneo 10 ya decimal kwa muda mrefu, uchunguzi unakubaliana na maandishi yetu kwenye kipande cha karatasi.</p><p> Huwezije kuwa na hofu na hilo? Na huwezije kusadikishwa kwamba hiyo inafunua ukweli fulani wa kina kuhusu uhalisi ambao hauujui kwa macho yako au kwa mikono yako au masikio yako? Hakuna maana inayoturuhusu kupata uzoefu wa moja kwa moja wa ulimwengu wa quantum, lakini hisabati huturuhusu kuielewa na kufanya utabiri unaokubaliana na uchunguzi. Hiyo ni hadithi yenye nguvu sana.</p><p> <b>Bi. Tippett:</b> Pia kuna mengi, angalau hivi sasa, ambayo ni dutu ya siku zetu ambayo haiwezi kupimwa. Ninamaanisha, unafikiri kwamba, wakati fulani, kitu kama fahamu au upendo kinaweza kupimika?</p><p> <b>Bwana Greene:</b> Nilijuaje kuwa utapenda? Mwanadamu, nilikuwa nikisema, "Je, anaenda kwenye swali la mapenzi?" Na nilikuwa sahihi. mimi hufanya. Simaanishi kusikika kama mwanasayansi asiye na moyo na baridi. Natumai sitakuja kwa njia hiyo kwa sababu sivyo nilivyo. Lakini ninaamini kwa dhati, kulingana na kile tunachojua leo, na hiyo inaweza kubadilika tukiwa na uelewa wa kina kesho, kwamba fahamu zote, hisia zetu zote, si chochote ila mchakato wa kimwili unaofanyika ndani ya kichwa hiki chenye fujo, kijivu ndani ya vichwa vyetu.</p><p> Hiyo, kwangu, haipunguzi fahamu. Haipunguzi uzoefu wa upendo, au furaha, au huzuni, au mambo yoyote yale yanayotufanya wanadamu. Lakini, nadhani, inafichua mchakato wa kweli wa msingi unaowajibika kwa hisia hizo. Na si chochote ila mambo fulani yanayotokea ndani ya ubongo wetu huu wa kijivu, na siku moja tutaielewa vya kutosha kuipa ramani kwa undani.</p><p> <b>Bi. Tippett:</b> Sawa, kwa hivyo wacha tuchukue uzoefu huu wa kawaida tunaofikiria kuwa tuna wakati. Ni tu - ni, tena, dutu, muundo wa siku zetu kama tunavyoiona. Kwa hivyo, hisia zetu zinatuambia hadithi ya ulimwengu wa saa ya Newton, sivyo? Sisi, miaka mia moja baada ya Einstein kutuambia, alielezea kwamba wakati ni jamaa, hatuwezi kusisitiza hilo. Namaanisha, alisema ni udanganyifu unaoendelea kwa ukaidi. Tuna udanganyifu huu unaoendelea kwa ukaidi kwamba hisi zetu huimarisha kila wakati kwamba wakati ni mshale unaosonga mbele. Ni ya mstari. Kuna yaliyopita, ya sasa na yajayo.</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Ndiyo.</p><p> <b>Bi. Tippett:</b> Hatuwezi kuweka hilo ndani. Lakini wewe, unaishi, unaishi na - una mikono yako katika ufahamu huu wa ukweli wakati wote. Kwa hivyo, unapataje uzoefu - je, unaweza kupata wakati kwa njia tofauti katika akili yako ya kibinadamu kwa sababu ya kile unachokijua kama mwanasayansi?</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Kwa hiyo, ukiniuliza, je, zamani zimepita? Ndiyo. Ningejibu ndiyo kwa hilo. Baba yangu amekufa? Je, amekwenda? Ndiyo. Ndivyo ninavyojibu kama binadamu. Ninaweza kujaribu kutambua kwamba, kama Einstein alivyotufundisha, wakati uliopita haujapita. Ni halisi kama ya sasa au yajayo. Ni lazima tu kutambua kwamba waangalizi tofauti, watu tofauti katika ulimwengu wanaotembea kwa kasi tofauti hukata ukweli kwa njia tofauti.</p><p> Kwa hiyo, ndiyo. Najua mambo hayo. Ninaifundisha. Ninawafanya wanafunzi wangu kujibu shida na kuchukua mitihani juu yake. Lakini ukiniuliza, je, nimeweza kuishona katika uzoefu wangu wa maisha? Hapana. Ni ngumu sana. Ni vigumu sana kushinda vipengele vya kila siku vya ulimwengu kwani hisi zetu huturuhusu kuzipitia.</p><p> <b>Bi. Tippett:</b> Ni aina fulani ya kunichambua hilo, kama vile wakati ambapo unafanya jaribio hili.</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Ndio. Kwa hivyo, ninamaanisha, kuna nyakati nitatembea chini ya Broadway, kuelekea kupata maziwa kwenye Soko la Westside, kama wengi katika chumba hiki bila shaka wamefanya, na nitapita mtu. Na nitafikiria jinsi saa yangu inavyoyoyoma kwa kasi tofauti na saa yao, na jinsi nikitazama saa yao, naona muda ukiyoyoma polepole. Wanapotazama saa yangu, wanaona saa yangu ikiyoyoma polepole. Hakika, mimi hucheza mchezo huo. Na ni aina ya jambo la kufurahisha kujaribu kujiweka kwenye kiputo halisi cha ukweli kama fizikia ilivyoielezea.</p><p> Lakini si kana kwamba kuna Intuition yoyote, Intuition ya kina inayohusishwa na hiyo. Ikiwa ungeniamsha saa 2:00 asubuhi, na kuniamsha kutoka kwenye usingizi mzito na kuniuliza swali lolote la kweli kuhusu wakati, ningejibu kama binadamu. Nisingejibu kulingana na ufahamu wa mtu ambaye amesoma fizikia.</p><p> <b>Bi. Tippett:</b> Haijisikii kifahari kwangu.</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Naam, ndiyo. Namaanisha…</p><p> [ <em>kicheko</em> ]</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Ninaweza kuwazia kwamba siku moja tutabadilika hadi kufikia mahali ambapo labda tunapitia maisha kwa kasi ya haraka, au maisha yenye uwezo mkubwa wa uvutano. Na kisha, tungepata uvumbuzi wetu ukielekea kwenye ukweli wa kweli unaoingia hapo. Lakini kwa kasi ya chini na uwezo mdogo wa mvuto, mtazamo wa ulimwengu wa Newton hufanya kazi nzuri sana ya kuelezea jinsi ulimwengu unavyofanya kazi, na hivyo ndivyo uvumbuzi wetu ulivyoibuka. Na hilo ndilo tunalokwama.</p><p> <b>Bi. Tippett:</b> Sawa. Hebu tujibu maswali kwa dakika chache. Na kisha tutarudi na kufunga hapa. Ninaamini kuna - watu watafanya nini? Tu - hapa kuna maikrofoni.</p><p> <b>Hadhira Mwanachama 1:</b> Hujambo, Dk. Greene. Je, tuna ushahidi gani bora zaidi wa nadharia ya kamba hivi sasa? Baadhi ya ushahidi bora na wa kuaminika zaidi unaojua tunao kwa nadharia ya kamba? Asante.</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Ndio. Ushahidi ni kwamba nadharia ya kamba ni sawa. Nzuri. Kwa hivyo, maswali mengine ambayo ungependa kuuliza ...</p><p> [ <em>kicheko</em> ]</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Hapana, sawa. Kwa hivyo, jibu la haraka kwa swali lako sio chochote. Nadharia ya kamba ni ahadi ya hisabati kabisa, na kwa sasa, hakuna jaribio ambalo tunaweza kuashiria ambalo linaweza kusema kuwa kuna ushahidi wa wazo hili. Na kwa sababu hiyo, nadharia ya kamba inapaswa kuitwa "hypothesis ya kamba." "Nadharia" katika sayansi ni maana maalum sana. Na nadharia ya kamba haijapanda hadi kiwango hicho bado.</p><p> Sasa, baada ya kusema hivyo, wacha nionyeshe tu kwamba tumejaribu mechanics ya quantum. Tunajua ni sehemu ya njia ya ulimwengu - tumejaribu uhusiano wa jumla. Tunajua ni jinsi ilivyo sehemu ya jinsi ulimwengu unavyofanya kazi. Tunaamini kwamba ulimwengu unapaswa kuwa na maelezo thabiti ya sheria za fizikia. Na bila nadharia ya kamba, mechanics ya quantum na uhusiano wa jumla au nadharia yetu ya mvuto - haziunganishi kwa njia thabiti.</p><p> Jambo la kushangaza ni ndani ya nadharia ya kamba, unapata, kwa mfano, uwanja wa Higgs au kitu ambacho kinaweza kuwa uwanja wa Higgs. Unapata kwamba unaweza kuingiza elektroni na quarks na neutrinos. Unapata kwamba unaweza kuingiza ulinganifu wa kupima ambao hutoa nguvu dhaifu na nguvu kali ya nyuklia.</p><p> Kwa hivyo mawazo haya yote ambayo yameendelezwa polepole, kwa utaratibu katika karne ya 20, yote yanapata nyumba ya asili ndani ya nadharia ya kamba, ambayo kwa boot, huweka pamoja mvuto na mechanics ya quantum. Kwa hivyo kuna sababu nyingi za kufurahishwa na nadharia, sababu nyingi za kuwa na msukumo wa kutosha wa kuisoma. Lakini bado hatujawasiliana na majaribio.</p><p> [ <em>Muziki: “Nina miaka 9 Leo” na Mama</em> ]</p><p> <b>Bi. Tippett:</b> Mimi ni Krista Tippett, na hii ni <em>On Being</em> . Leo, kufikiria upya ulimwengu na mwanafizikia Brian Greene. Tunachukua maswali kutoka kwa hadhira katika Ukumbi wa Davis wa Columbia.</p><p> [ <em>Muziki: “Nina miaka 9 Leo” na Mama</em> ]</p><p> <b>Hadhira Mwanachama 2:</b> Asante, Dk. Greene. Asante kwa kazi yako yote na jinsi inavyoarifu chama changu. Mimi ni mwanatheolojia. Kwa hivyo nina maswali mawili, kwa kweli. Labda sikuelewa au sijashawishika au kushawishiwa na mazungumzo yako kuhusu hiari. Kwa sababu inaonekana kana kwamba pendekezo lako linatuweka katika ulimwengu unaoamua sana, na kwamba kwa namna fulani sisi ni karibu roboti wanaotekeleza sheria hizi za jumla. Na kwamba hakuna jambo jipya ndani ya chombo hiki changamani sana na cha ubunifu ambacho sisi ni kama viumbe wanaofahamu. Hiyo ni yangu ya kwanza.</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Kwa hiyo, ndiyo. Ni vigumu kukubali.</p><p> [ <em>kicheko</em> ]</p><p> <b>Hadhira Mwanachama 2:</b> Kwa hivyo unaweza kusema kitu...</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Lakini nisingeenda hadi kusema hakuna jambo jipya. Lakini ndio, hiari inaweza kwenda mbali.</p><p> <b>Hadhira Mwanachama 2:</b> Kwa hivyo, hiari, ikimaanisha chaguo. Hakuna kitu kama chaguo?</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Hiyo ni kweli.</p><p> <b>Hadhira Mwanachama 2:</b> Sichagui kupenda. Sichagui kujiongeza. Sichagui kuishi, kurejea Camus.</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Kweli, yote inategemea unamaanisha nini kwa "chagua." Kwa hiyo, ikiwa kwa "chagua," unamaanisha kwamba ungeweza kufanya vinginevyo, basi ningesema ndiyo. Lakini ningesema kwamba unahitaji kufafanua upya maana ya neno “chagua.” "Chagua" ni hisia ya kuchagua. Sasa ni ukweli kwamba sheria za fizikia zilikuwa zikicheza zenyewe tu, na ndio maana ulifanya ulichofanya, lakini kuchagua ni kuwa na hisia za kufanya chaguo hilo. Na sisi sote tuna hisia hiyo.</p><p> Na hiyo ni ufafanuzi ambao nadhani unafanya kazi vizuri. Inahitaji kurekebishwa kidogo kwa uvumbuzi wako ili kutambua kwamba inaweza kuwa hivyo - sheria za fizikia ambazo ziko nyuma ya pazia kufanya yote. Lakini ndiyo, hisia hiyo ya uchaguzi ni ya kweli. Na hiyo ndiyo tunapaswa kufafanua upya hiari kumaanisha.</p><p> <b>Hadhira Mwanachama 2:</b> Nia ya bure kwa…</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Hiari ni hisia ya kufanya uchaguzi. Ingawa, nyuma ya pazia, sheria za fizikia zilikuwa zikivuta kamba.</p><p> <b>Hadhira Mwanachama 2:</b> Asante. Bado sijashawishika.</p><p> [ <em>kicheko</em> ]</p><p> <b>Mshiriki wa Hadhira 2:</b> Swali langu la pili, ingawa, linahusiana na kuweka ukweli wa kimungu, ambao - hebu tutumie neno "Mungu". Kwa nini unaendelea kuiweka juu na zaidi kwa vile sisi katika chama cha theolojia hatufanyi hivyo tena?</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Naam, ikiwa unatumia neno “Mungu” kumaanisha kiumbe ambacho kimeundwa na mambo yale yale tunayoona katika ulimwengu unaotuzunguka, kikiongozwa na sheria zilezile ambazo mambo hayo yanatawaliwa nayo, basi Mungu ni wazo linaloshikamana na lenye busara. Na ikiwa ndivyo unavyomaanisha, basi tunazungumza lugha moja. Lakini ukimaanisha kile ambacho kimapokeo kinamaanishwa na Mungu, ambacho ni kiumbe kinachoweza kuombea, kinachoweza kusababisha mambo kutokea ambayo hayatawaliwi na sheria za fizikia, basi tunazungumza lugha tofauti.</p><p> Na niseme sisemi kwamba wazo hilo si sahihi. Inaweza kuwa sawa. Huenda Mungu yuko nyuma ya hayo yote. Labda Mungu aliyaweka yote, na kuna tofauti fulani za mawazo haya ambapo Mungu hukaa nyuma na kuyaacha yote yajifanye yenyewe. Na hiyo inaweza kuwa kile kinachoendelea. Ninachomaanisha kusema sio kwamba wazo hilo si sahihi, lakini kama mwanasayansi, naona halifurahishi sana kwa sababu halinipi ufahamu mpya katika maswali yoyote ya kina ambayo tumekuwa tukizungumza hapa. Hainisaidii kuhesabu chochote. Hainisaidii kupata maarifa fulani kuhusu mafumbo haya makubwa. Inachukua tu fumbo moja na kutumia neno lingine la herufi tatu kuweka lebo tena fumbo hilo. Na ndio maana sioni inapendeza. Si kwamba ni makosa; Sioni inavutia.</p><p> Acha nionyeshe tu kwamba ninaona mazungumzo kati ya sayansi na dini yanavutia sana, kwa sababu kwangu, ni mazungumzo ambayo yanazungumza juu ya sisi ni nani, na wapi tumekuwa, na hamu yetu ya kuelewa, na hadithi tunazosimulia, na mzizi wa kujaribu kupata uelewa wa kina. Ninaona hiyo inavutia sana. Niliposema haipendezi, nilimaanisha katika suala la maswali ya fizikia. Hainiruhusu kupata maendeleo yoyote katika maswali hayo.</p><p> <b>Hadhira Mwanachama 3:</b> Dk. Greene, unazungumza kwa uzuri kabisa kuhusu ukweli huu wa kihisabati wa wazimu ambao unasisitiza uelewa wetu wa uzoefu wetu, ambao tunapata kupitia maswali haya mazito. Na niko kwenye bodi na hilo kama vile mtu wa kawaida anaweza kukusikiliza katika tafsiri. Lakini swali langu ni kwamba, majibu ya maswali haya mazito yanapozidi kuwa yasiyoeleweka, ni muhimu kiasi gani au ni kweli kiasi gani yoyote kati ya haya yanapofikiwa tu na watu wanaoweza kuelewa aina hizi za majibu ya ajabu ya kihisabati?</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Naam, tena, mambo ambayo ni magumu kwetu, miaka mia moja kutoka sasa, tutakuwa tukiyafundisha katika darasa la pili. Kwa hivyo, tunaona hii kila wakati. Na kwa hivyo, sidhani kama tunaweza kuhukumu mambo kwa mukhtasari wa muda kwa wakati kuhusu mambo ambayo tunastarehe nayo na mambo ambayo hatufurahii nayo. Lakini nadhani ni muhimu kutambua kwamba, kama tulivyokuwa tukijadili hapo awali, hata mawazo dhahania ya ufundi wa quantum mechanics, unabeba mekanika za quantum mfukoni mwako ikiwa una simu ya rununu.</p><p> Ukweli kwamba una kifaa hicho, ukweli kwamba una kompyuta ya kibinafsi, ukweli wa kitu chochote kilicho na mzunguko jumuishi, yote inategemea hesabu hii ya dhana ya mechanics ya quantum ambayo inatuwezesha kuendesha elektroni, ili kuwafanya kupitia nyaya hizi ndogo za microscopic. Kwa hivyo, mawazo haya sio hesabu ya wazimu tu; sio tu maarifa ya ajabu na ya kufikirika kuhusu jinsi ulimwengu unavyofanya kazi; kwa kweli wana njia ya kupenyeza maisha yetu ya kila siku.</p><p> Kwa hivyo, nadhani hiyo inaweka wazi kuwa haya hayana maana, bila kujali kama mtu aliye na simu ya rununu anaelewa mlinganyo wa Schrodinger, inajalisha. Na baada ya muda, nadhani vikwazo kati ya wale wanaoelewa mawazo haya na wale ambao hawataki, tena, chini. Kwa sababu baada ya muda, mawazo ambayo yanaonekana kuwa haiwezekani kwa kizazi kimoja huwa asili ya pili hadi ijayo.</p><p> <b>Bi. Tippett:</b> Kwa hivyo, Einstein alisema kwamba alikuwa na hisia za kidini za ulimwengu ambazo zilihusu kustaajabisha na kustaajabisha na hali ya fumbo, na kwamba hiyo ilitosha. Niambie, una hisia za kidini za ulimwengu, au ni maneno ambayo yanaendana nawe? Au ungeelezeaje hilo?</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Ndio. Tena, yote inategemea maana ya maneno haya.</p><p> <b>Bi. Tippett:</b> Sawa.</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Lakini - kwa hivyo, bila kuiweka lebo ...</p><p> <b>Bi. Tippett:</b> Kwa hivyo, ungetumia maneno gani kwako mwenyewe?</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Ndio, bila kuiweka lebo, ningeielezea tu kama nina hisia ya kina ya upatanisho wa ajabu wa jinsi ulimwengu ulivyowekwa pamoja, kwamba kwa sheria hizi rahisi za hisabati ambazo zinaweza kuandikwa kwenye t-shirt - hii sio apokrifa - ninamaanisha, watoto wangu wana fulana kama hiyo, na wanavaa wakati mwingine.</p><p> Kwa kutumia sheria hizo, tunaweza kuelewa kwa hakika jinsi ulimwengu ulivyoibuka kutoka kwa mgawanyiko wa sekunde baada ya mwanzo - Mlipuko Mkubwa bado ni fumbo - lakini tunaweza kuelewa jinsi ulivyotokea kutoka kwa mgawanyiko wa sekunde baada ya mwanzo hadi leo na kuelewa vipengele vyake vya kina vyema. Hilo ni jambo la kushangaza. Hiyo ni kiroho kwangu. Ukweli kwamba yote - utata huu katika ulimwengu huko nje unaweza kupunguzwa kwa mawazo machache rahisi. Nguvu ya hesabu, kwangu, ni karibu uzoefu wa kiroho. Kwa hiyo, ndiyo. Ningesema ikiwa hiyo ni ufafanuzi mzuri wa mambo ya kidini, basi mimi ni mtu wa kidini sana.</p><p> <b>Bi. Tippett:</b> Mimi tu - umetaja watoto wako, na ninafikiria jinsi ingekuwa rahisi kwao kukuambia kwamba hawakuwa na chaguo la kufanya walichofanya kwa sababu hawana hiari.</p><p> [ <em>kicheko</em> ]</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Wanafanya hivyo. Na wako sahihi. Hawawahi kuadhibiwa. Lakini sikuwa na chaguo la kuwaadhibu. Hayo ndiyo majibu.</p><p> [ <em>kicheko</em> ]</p><p> <b>Bi. Tippett:</b> Kufuata tu wazo hilo la ufahamu wa kiroho - wazo lingine, picha ambayo Einstein alitumia ilikuwa ya akili au akili nyuma ya ulimwengu, ambayo hakumaanisha Mungu muumbaji. Lakini, hasa kuhusu suala hili la kufichika, na jambo hili tumekuwa tukilizunguka kwa muda wote kwamba kile unachojua kuwa asili ya ukweli si kitu ambacho tunaweza kutambua katika uzoefu mkubwa, ambayo ni yote tunayo.</p><p> Kwa hivyo, ikiwa unafikiria - na sijui ikiwa neno hili ni muhimu kwako - lakini ikiwa unafikiria juu ya akili au akili au hata mpangilio ulio nyuma ya ulimwengu, basi unafikiriaje hilo? Pia ina kitu ambacho kinajumuisha uficho kama njia ya kutoa hoja yake.</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Kwa hivyo, ninamaanisha, jambo la muhimu kuzingatia - nadhani wanafizikia wengi wana mtazamo huu - hatuwazii kuwa kuna akili nyuma ya yote, lakini tunafanya ...</p><p> <b>Bi. Tippett:</b> Sawa. Hapana, ndio.</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Lakini ningesema kwamba tunatazamia kwamba kuna sheria hizi zenye nguvu ambazo zinaweza kufanya mambo ambayo hungetarajia waweze kufanya, kulingana na mtazamo wa kutojua kabisa wa milinganyo. Ninamaanisha, inawezaje kuwa uhusiano huo wa jumla, mlingano rahisi katika mechanics ya quantum na modeli ya kawaida ya fizikia ya chembe - ikiwa tutaiweka kwenye mchanganyiko, katika kipindi cha mabilioni ya miaka, inaweza kwa njia fulani kupanga njama ya kukutoa wewe na mimi, kiumbe hiki changamani, na utambuzi?</p><p> Je, tunawezaje kuibuka kutoka kwa sheria za fizikia zinazotenda kupitia mabadiliko ya mageuzi? Lakini hiyo ni nguvu ya hesabu. Kwa hivyo ikiwa unataka, kuna mkono uliofichwa. Uite mkono uliofichwa wa Mungu ukitaka. Ningeiita tu mkono uliofichwa wa hesabu. Na hilo linatufikisha mwanzo hadi hapa.</p><p> <b>Bi. Tippett:</b> Sawa. Nadhani hilo ndilo neno lako la mwisho. Asante, Brian Greene.</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Furaha yangu.</p><p> <b>Bi. Tippett:</b> Asanteni nyote kwa kuja.</p><p> [makofi]</p><p> [ <em>Muziki: “Summer Colour” na I Am Robot And Proud</em> ]</p><p> <b>Bi. Tippett:</b> Brian Greene ni profesa wa fizikia na hisabati katika Chuo Kikuu cha Columbia. Yeye pia ni mwanzilishi mwenza wa Tamasha la Sayansi Ulimwenguni. Vitabu vyake ni pamoja na <em>Ulimwengu wa Kifahari</em> na <em>Ukweli Uliofichwa: Ulimwengu Sambamba na Sheria za Kina za Cosmos</em> .</p><p> [ <em>Muziki: “Summer Colour” na I Am Robot And Proud</em> ]</p><p> <b>Bi. Tippett:</b> Kwa hivyo, kipande kimoja cha mazungumzo yangu na Brian Greene bado kinanishangaza, na hatukuweza kukiweka kwenye onyesho. Mojawapo ya hali ambazo nadharia ya kamba inapendekeza ni kwamba kile tunachoona kama ukweli, ikiwa ni pamoja na sisi wenyewe, ni kama hologramu.</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Fizikia nyingi huja katika historia ya wazo hili, lakini pendekezo ni kwamba tunaweza kuwa makadirio ya holografia ya sheria za fizikia ambazo ziko kwenye uso mwembamba unaotuzunguka, tuseme, kwenye kingo za mbali za ulimwengu, kama vile hologramu ni kipande nyembamba cha plastiki ambacho, kinapoangaziwa kwa usahihi, huunda picha halisi ya 3D. Huenda tukawa picha ya 3D, ukitaka, ya fizikia iliyopo kwenye eneo hilo linalopakana.</p><p> <b>Bi. Tippett:</b> Je, hilo halileti swali la chanzo cha habari hii? Ninamaanisha, moja ya mlinganisho uliotumia - ni kama sisi ni marefu ya ramani ya mbunifu, au - lakini ni nani - ni nini chanzo cha mpango huo?</p><p> <b>Bw. Greene:</b> Sawa. Ni vigumu kujibu.</p><p> <b>Bi. Tippett:</b> Ili kusikia zaidi kuhusu hili na mawazo mengine ya kuvutia kutoka kwa mazungumzo yangu na Brian Greene, tafuta mahojiano ambayo hayajahaririwa kwenye onbeing.org au popote unapopakua podikasti zako.</p><p> [ <em>Muziki: “Twinkle Twinkle” na Kettel</em> ]</p><p> <b>Wafanyakazi:</b> <em>On Being</em> ni Trent Gilliss, Chris Heagle, Lily Percy, Mariah Helgeson, Maia Tarrell, Marie Sambilay, Bethanie Mann, na Selena Carlson.</p><p> <b>Bi. Tippett:</b> Shukrani za pekee wiki hii kwa Robert Pollack, Emma Chang, na Miranda Hawkins huko Columbia; na kwa Paul Ruest wa Argot Studios.</p><p> Muziki wetu wa mandhari ya kupendeza hutolewa na kutungwa na Zoe Keating. Na sauti ya mwisho unayoisikia ikiimba sifa zetu za mwisho katika kila onyesho ni msanii wa hip-hop Lizzo.</p><p> <em>On Being</em> iliundwa katika American Public Media. Washirika wetu wa ufadhili ni pamoja na:</p><p> Msingi wa John Templeton.</p><p> Taasisi ya Fetzer, kusaidia kujenga msingi wa kiroho kwa ulimwengu wenye upendo. 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