I don’t know what his training is, but he comes across as a well-trained scientist. He has internalized that western skepticism, good science but also he is a Buddhist monk. So, this science and spirituality connection is clearly very important.
I think the third pillar apart from Science and Spirituality is Society. I think it is wonderful that the Dalai Lama and all these western scientists have had a lot of meetings and some very good material has come out of that. But I think if we don’t deal with society, don’t deal with institutions, don’t deal with economy and big businesses, then it could be counter-productive. There is a need for science that is more than the curiosity of the scientists but for the society. I think science, spirituality and society will be the new nexus. It’s not the old individual spirituality any more; I mean it is about collective awakening. And collective awakening is like the sitting-zen / working-zen. The working-zen is institutions (how business works, how schools work, how govt works) - how collectively we do our work.
Prasad: I agree with you. I think about the intersection of science, spirituality and business as three circles in my framing.
On Compassion
Prasad: What would you have done if you were to know what you know now when you were young? If you were to have the same awareness when you were young, would you have done anything differently?
Peter: I never thought about this a great deal. The only thoughts that I have had in this general area is that I think I am a sort of person who has a predisposition to work harder and try harder. If I understood what I understand now, I would have been a much better athlete because I always worked really hard, but I didn’t use my mind (laughs). I think, I would have been more relaxed about a lot of things.
The way I talk now, I think these were the moments of awakening when I was discovering how to operate and create space, and then creating the space so that nature can guide you. But I don’t think I understood that nearly enough when I was young, so I would just work hard. I think I would have been a little more relaxed. I don’t think I was very good in relationships in a lot of ways, because I was not a good listener. One of the lifelong practice for me is to be a good listener because I think I was so caught up in my own thoughts, in my own feelings that I really didn’t reach out very effectively and listened to people. After 5 or 6 years into it I realized that it was a real gap for me in my own behavior in my own awareness and I made a choice to be compassionate. And I made that choice again and again over 2 or 3 years and I had to keep working on it. I think it’s just part of my particular journey in this cycle. It is continuing to make my heart open to being compassionate and I’ve learned that one of the biggest allies of that is your own suffering. When you really suffer (a loss), it really hurts you or you want something desperately yet you know that you can’t have it. So you suffer this ego-dynamic of “I want it but I can’t have it” and you feel miserable. Those are the ways you open your compassion, so that when someone else is going through that suffering, you know.
I think I had a very comfortable life. I was an only child, we were a very middle class and I had the most wonderful upbringing -- which was great, but it did not expose to suffering very much. So I think that’s one of the reasons that I didn’t really have a great capacity for compassion. Life is a good teacher for me.
On Respectful Autonomy
Prasad: If you were to tell your grandchildren, what would you tell them about coping with the future?
Peter: I would tell them one thing. Don’t be afraid of suffering even though it’s not easy. Sadness is sadness, fear is fear, and anxiety is anxiety. Don’t kid yourself. But recognize that it is very important developmentally and will really assist you in having a rich life with rich relationships.
I always tell kids, find what is right for you and don’t let the adults manipulate you too much. When you are a young person, the adults are natural authority figures. There is a very important difference between allowing yourself to be manipulated and being respectful. Respect is good because you are honoring them as a person. But doing what they told you to do because they told you to do is not a good idea. You should think about what they are telling you. Because 9 times out of 10 it may be useful. You have to make your own choices. You have to develop your sense of autonomy. But I do think it is hard for the kids because our institutions do not support this view. They are basically authoritarian in nature and they say that if the person who is in front of you is an adult you do what they tell you to do. I think the opposite of ignore the adults is also stupid. I think when children are really respected, they know that the adults around them are asking ‘what is important to you?’, they feel that inner respect and they reciprocate. And they look for adult guidance and for a mentor. But they look for the mentor that they want.
Prasad: Any last comments or recommendations for leaders?
Peter: [To the leaders] I think you should find somebody nice to talk to. When you really orient yourself out with others around you, they will know your problems. When you are most confused, angry or upset, ask someone who can help. Go help somebody or be nice to somebody. I think it’s very important because we are right at the cusp now when more and more people with authority are trying to recognize that your personal development matters. It’s not just about being smarter and having more degrees and more ability to manipulate power. There is whole different domain of our development as a human being. However it is treacherous. Because it is a very self-obsessed orientation. So I think one should have that instinct, that intention to grow as a human being, then you need practices and strategies and I think that orients towards the others and it’s wonderful.
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