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Sledi zvočni Posnetek in Prepis Intervjuja onbeing.org Med Kristo Tippett in dr. Jamesom Dotyjem.
 <div class="story-meta-left"> <div class="story-logo"> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org"> <img alt="DailyGood" src="https://www.karunanews.org/pics/90x90.jpg"> </a> </div> <div class="story-meta-info"> <div class="story-author">By <a href="/author?name=On%20Being">On Being</a></div> <div class="story-details"> <span class="story-date">Apr 17, 2016</span> <span class="story-read-time">8 min read</span> </div> <div class="story-source">Source: <a href="http://www.onbeing.org/program/james-doty-the-magic-shop-of-the-brain/transcript/8418" target="_blank">onbeing.org</a></div> </div> </div>  <div class="story-meta-right">  <div class="utility-buttons"> <div class="dropdown"> <button class="utility-btn translate-btn dropdown-toggle py-1" type="button" id="translationDropdown" data-bs-toggle="dropdown" aria-expanded="false"> <i class="fa fa-language me-2" aria-hidden="true"></i>Slovenian </button> <ul class="dropdown-menu dropdown-menu-end translation-dropdown" 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id="dg_story"> <div class="dark-link perm_post"> na veliko načinov so še vedno otroci in samo iščejo tisto osebo, ki jih bo objela in imela rada. Lahko je res izjemno.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Ja, je. Samo še nekaj minut imamo. Gledal sem panel, mislim, da je bila konferenca CCARE, ki ste jo organizirali leta 2014. Zvenelo je tako zanimivo. In to so bile zadnje misli. In nekdo v komisiji, drugi znanstvenik, ki dela v tem svetu raziskovanja, je rekel – rekla je, da meni, da je prednost za rast tega področja prepoznavanje – da se toliko naučimo o tem, kaj lahko storimo, v smislu spodbujanja sočutja in človekovega razcveta z veliko bogatejšo domišljijo o tem, kako to izgleda. Vendar je rekla, še vedno moramo ugotavljati, kateri so težki, kočljivi problemi, do katerih še vedno ne znamo pristopiti v sodobni kulturi za mnoge ljudi? In sprašujem se, kako razmišljate o tem. Kakšne bi bile te težave, ta dinamika za vas?</p><p> DR. DOTY: No, mislim, da smo se dotaknili nekaterih izmed njih. Ena je naša narava, če hočete, občutek grožnje. In ta težnja k tribalizmu. In mislim, da je drugo, kako ustvarite trajnostno spremembo ali spremembo navad?</p><p> Prej smo govorili o eni od tendenc, da se vrnemo nazaj k svojemu osnovnemu vedenju, ko začutimo grožnjo. In zanimivo je – ko združite vse te informacije, ki se jih učimo o teh različnih področjih, in jih lahko konsolidirate, vam to da veliko jasnejšo sliko – in pravzaprav, mislim, optimistično sliko – o možnostih. Obstaja celo področje zanimanja, imenovano nevrohekanje. [ <em>smeh</em> ]</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: [ <em>smeh</em> ] Nisem še slišal za to. Povej mi</p><p> DR. DOTY: No, to je prepričanje, da lahko dejansko vdreš v svoje možgane in jih spremeniš. In ne glede na to, ali gre za zdravila, nevroprotetiko ali celo vrsto tehnologij, s katerimi bi lahko odstranili ali izboljšali nekatere od teh negativnih tendenc, ki jih imamo, in spodbujali ta druga področja, ki so bolj pozitivna. Kot primer smo govorili o amigdali in nekaterih njenih negativnih učinkih. Če bi lahko ustvarili zdravilo, vsadek, stimulator, ki bi lahko izboljšal njegove učinke in se dejansko takoj odzval, ko začuti grožnjo, ki ni resnična grožnja, potem bi to lahko spremenilo celo vrsto interakcij, ki jih imamo.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Počutim se, kot da - težko je - no, ne vem, morda je to pomanjkanje moje domišljije. Težko si predstavljam, da lahko z vsadki presežemo človeško stanje. Ampak tu je še ena stvar, ki – mislim, da je bila del najinega pogovora, vendar jo želim poimenovati in to si napisal – lahko boli, če greš skozi življenje z odprtim srcem. Ne samo — lahko se odločimo, da ne bomo plemenski. Toda odpreš se več veselja in tudi bolečini, ki si je morda prej nisi pustil občutiti. In mislim, da je to nekaj, čemur se bomo kot bitja uprli.</p><p> DR. DOTY: Večina nas si bolj želi užitka kot bolečine. Mislim pa, da vsakdo, ki je živel življenje – kar pomeni, da si imel bolečino in trpljenje – ugotovi, da je v bolečini in trpljenju darilo, saj ti omogoča, da vidiš resničnost, da je to del življenja. In to je del smiselnega življenja.</p><p> In ko si sposoben vzeti to bolečino in trpljenje in ga uporabiti, da se ne skrivaš pred svetom, da ga uporabiš, da se ne bojiš vsake interakcije, ampak da ga uporabiš, da rečeš, ja, včasih je težko, toda naučil sem se toliko lekcij in postal sem bolj hvaležen in imam več hvaležnosti, in v toliko primerih vidite, kako so ljudje ob največji stiski pokazali svojo največjo človečnost. In takrat, ko to prepoznaš, si najbolj ponosen, da si dejansko del človeške vrste.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Povejte mi o študijah, ki potekajo zdaj, ali — to je tako divja meja nevroznanosti in razumevanja naših teles in možganov ter interakcije med njimi. Povejte mi o nekaterih nastajajočih robovih vpogleda, ki vas trenutno zanimajo.</p><p> DR. DOTY: No, pravzaprav je zanimivo, ker ena od stvari – in dejansko urejamo nekaj, kar se imenuje <em>Handbook of Compassion Science</em> , ki ga bo pravzaprav izdala založba Oxford University Press, toda eno od zaključnih poglavij, pri katerih sem soavtor, je pravzaprav nastajajoče področje umetne inteligence in vpliv, ki ga bo imela. In tisto, kar je izjemno pri tem nastajajočem področju, je priznanje - in ali ni nenavadno - priznanje, da morate zdaj privabiti moralne filozofe, da sodelujejo z računalniškimi znanstveniki.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Da. [ <em>smeh</em> ]</p><p> DR. DOTY: [ <em>smeh</em> ] Kajne?</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Ja.</p><p> DR. DOTY: Ker moraš te robote, če hočeš, prežeti z določeno mero človečnosti. In tudi v človeškem primeru, ista vrsta stvari, kjer imate posameznike, za katere se zdi, da nimajo sposobnosti povezovanja z drugimi.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Prav. Za globoko vez, kot oksitocin.</p><p> DR. DOTY: Točno tako. In tako je v ospredju zmožnost, da to potencialno spremenite na nek način, kjer lahko ljudem daste ta dar povezovanja. Zdaj, to vodi na povsem drugo področje, kajne, ker če pogledate ...</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: [ <em>smeh</em> ] Morda boste imeli zakonce, ki to vržejo v pijačo svojih partnerjev.</p><p> DR. DOTY: [ <em>smeh</em> ] Ja, potencialno. Toda v resnici pripelje do celotne točke, kdo smo v resnici, kajne?</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Da. Da, res je.</p><p> DR. DOTY: In potem, ali je prav ali narobe, če imamo možnost to spremeniti ...</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Da bi jih reformirali na tak način, biološko.</p><p> DR. DOTY: Ja.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Vau.</p><p> DR. DOTY: Točno tako.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: To je neverjetno.</p><p> DR. DOTY: In, kot pravite, ali je prav ali narobe, da svojega zakonca spremenite tako, kot hočejo – vi želite, da so? [ <em>smeh</em> ]</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Prav. Toda sproža možnost, da bomo – recimo v naslednjih desetletjih, v tem stoletju, prisiljeni – zaradi tega, kam nas peljeta tehnologija in znanost – artikulirati vizijo človeške normalnosti in človeškega razcveta. In zdi se mi, da ste na to vprašanje odgovorili na več načinov med tem — najinim pogovorom, vendar se sprašujem, kako to delo, ki ga opravljate vsakodnevno, in kar se naučite, tako osebno kot tudi kot znanstvenik — kako to še naprej vpliva in oblikuje način, kako se vsakodnevno premikate po svetu? Ali vidite konkretne načine, kako vas to še naprej spreminja ali spreminja?</p><p> DR. DOTY: No, mislim, da obstaja nekaj stvari. Mislim, da je eno vsaj to, kar poskušam narediti ali kar je moj namen ali želja, da ljudi pritegnem na ta odkritosrčen način. In kar zadeva mojo lastno prakso s pacienti, na primer, ena od stvari, ki jih vidimo pri zdravnikih, je, da ko imajo brezupen primer ali terminalni primer - in pogosto pravzaprav nevrokirurgi - ko je ta resničnost očitna, jih ni več.</p><p> In ena od stvari, ki sem jih ugotovil zase, je, da je največje učenje in modrost, ki sem ji pogosto imel privilegij biti prisoten, pravzaprav prehod človeka, njegova smrt in ne strah smrti. In mislim, da je drugi vidik ta, da vsaj jaz cenim, da imam vsak dan sposobnost, da s svojimi dejanji izboljšam življenje vsaj eni osebi. In kar včasih pozabimo, je celo nasmeh drugemu človeku, za kar je potrebno zelo malo truda, za tistega, ki ga prejme, pa lahko pomeni ogromno. In ne smemo pozabiti, da lahko ta majhna, majhna dejanja, ti majhni valovi dejansko ustvarijo cunami, če se vsak od nas vključi v njih. Zapomnite si, ko oseba – in to vemo iz znanosti – ko vidi drugo osebo, da se pozitivno vede, je veliko, velikokrat bolj verjetno, da se bo tudi sama tako vedla. Ko vidijo drugo osebo, da ravna prijazno, velikodušno in hvaležno ...</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Postane nalezljivo, kajne.</p><p> DR. DOTY: ...in ko ti ...</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Postane nalezljivo.</p><p> DR. DOTY: Točno tako.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Pozitivna okužba.</p><p> DR. DOTY: Točno tako. In seveda lahko potencialno postane nasprotje. Toda v kontekstu pozitivnega lahko postane nalezljivo. In ne poznam ene same osebe, če bi vedela, da ima sposobnost ustvariti to okužbo, tega ne bi želela storiti. In mislim, da ljudje razumejo – in mislim, da je to bila tema našega celotnega pogovora – da niso okoliščine tiste, ki ustvarjajo njihov čustveni odziv. To so oni. In velikokrat na to pozabimo. V mojem primeru kot otroku ta interakcija s to žensko Ruth ni spremenila mojih življenjskih okoliščin. Spremenilo se je, kako sem se čustveno odzval na to okoliščino. In vsak od nas ima možnost spremeniti, kako se čustveno odziva na naše življenjske okoliščine, in ustvariti okolje, v katerem lahko končno uspevamo in damo tistim okoli nas priložnost za razcvet.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Ja. To je torej moje zadnje vprašanje. Proti koncu vaše knjige podate veliko izjavo. Pravite: "Smo na začetku dobe sočutja." Kaj ta stavek pomeni za vas? Kaj vidite? Kako vidite to manifestacijo? Katere so njegove sestavine?</p><p> DR. DOTY: No, seveda. Mislim, da – kot veste, smo imeli dobo razsvetljenstva, ki je močno vplivalo na našo človeško vrsto. In verjamem, da z znanjem, ki ga pridobivamo z nevroznanostjo, z različnimi tehnologijami, vidimo učinek, pozitiven učinek, sočutja v majhnih žepih v družbi in kako globok je lahko. In še enkrat, verjamem, da ko izkusimo, ko vidimo, ko manifestiramo te majhne žepke sočutja in skrbi za druge, ki se pojavljajo, bomo na koncu spoznali, da je to pot, ki nas bo vodila iz teme v svetlobo.</p><p> [ <em>glasba: “Making Amends” Andy McNeill</em> ]</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: James Doty je klinični profesor nevrokirurgije na univerzi Stanford in ustanovni direktor CCARE, Centra za raziskovanje in izobraževanje o sočutju in altruizmu. Njegova knjiga je <em>Into the Magic Shop: A Neurosurgeon's Quest to Discover the Mysterys of the Brain and the Secrets of the Heart</em> .</p><p> [ <em>glasba: “Making Amends” Andy McNeill</em> ]</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Na onbeing.org se lahko prijavite na naše tedensko e-poštno sporočilo, pismo iz Loring Parka. Vsako soboto zjutraj v vašem nabiralniku — kuriran seznam najboljšega, kar beremo in objavljamo, vključno s spisi naših gostujočih sodelavcev. Ta teden nadaljujemo naš pogovor o zapletenosti nasilja z orožjem z esejem Jacksona Culpepperja, »Nit nasilja: ljubiti orožje in se učiti od njega«. Poiščite to in še veliko več na onbeing.org.</p><p> [ <em>glasba: “Hopopono” GoGo Penguin</em> ]</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: <em>O Biti so</em> Trent Gilliss, Chris Heagle, Lily Percy, Mariah Helgeson, Maia Tarrell, Annie Parsons, Marie Sambilay, Tess Montgomery, Aseel Zahran, Bethanie Kloecker in Selena Carlson.</p><p> Naši glavni finančni partnerji so:</p><p> Fundacija Johna Templetona.</p><p> Fundacija Ford, ki sodeluje z vizionarji na fronti družbenih sprememb po vsem svetu na fordfoundation.org.</p><p> Inštitut Fetzer, ki spodbuja zavedanje o moči ljubezni in odpuščanja, da spremenita naš svet. Poiščite jih na fetzer.org.</p><p> Fundacija Kalliopeia, ki prispeva k organizacijam, ki vtkajo spoštovanje, vzajemnost in odpornost v tkivo sodobnega življenja.</p><p> Fundacija Henryja Luceja v podporo Reimagined Public Theology.</p><p> In fundacija Osprey, katalizator za opolnomočena, zdrava in izpolnjena življenja.</p> </div> </div>    <div class="inline-share-icons border-0 mt-0 pt-0"> <div class="d-flex align-items-center"> <span class="me-3 fw-semibold">Share this story:</span> <div> <a href="http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F1267%2Fjames-doty-the-magic-shop-of-the-brain-on-being%2F" target="_blank" class="share-icon" aria-label="Share on Facebook"> <i class="fab fa-facebook-f"></i> </a> <a href="https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F1267%2Fjames-doty-the-magic-shop-of-the-brain-on-being%2F&text=%3Cp%3ESledi+zvo%C4%8Dni+Posnetek+in+Prepis+Intervjuja+onbeing.org+Med+Kristo+Tippett+in+dr.+Jamesom+Dotyjem.+%3C%2Fp%3E%3Cp%3E%3C%2Fp%3E%3Ciframe+frameborder%3D%22no%22+height%3D%22166%22+scrolling%3D%22no%22+src%3D%22https%3A%2F%2Fw.soundcloud.com%2Fplayer%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F246548890%26am%20%3A%20na+veliko+na%C4%8Dinov+so+%C5%A1e+vedno+otroci+in+samo+i%C5%A1%C4%8Dejo+tisto+osebo%2C+ki+jih+bo+objela+in+imela+rada.+Lahko+je+res+izjemno.+MS.+TIPPETT%3A+Ja%2C+je.+Samo+%C5%A1e+nekaj+minut+imamo.+Gledal+sem+panel%2C+mis&via=&hashtags=" target="_blank" class="share-icon" aria-label="Share on Twitter"> <i class="fab fa-twitter"></i> </a> <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/sharing/share-offsite/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F1267%2Fjames-doty-the-magic-shop-of-the-brain-on-being%2F" target="_blank" class="share-icon" aria-label="Share on LinkedIn"> <i class="fab fa-linkedin-in"></i> </a> <a href="https://api.whatsapp.com/send?text=%3Cp%3ESledi+zvo%C4%8Dni+Posnetek+in+Prepis+Intervjuja+onbeing.org+Med+Kristo+Tippett+in+dr.+Jamesom+Dotyjem.+%3C%2Fp%3E%3Cp%3E%3C%2Fp%3E%3Ciframe+frameborder%3D%22no%22+height%3D%22166%22+scrolling%3D%22no%22+src%3D%22https%3A%2F%2Fw.soundcloud.com%2Fplayer%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F246548890%26am%20%3A%20na+veliko+na%C4%8Dinov+so+%C5%A1e+vedno+otroci+in+samo+i%C5%A1%C4%8Dejo+tisto+osebo%2C+ki+jih+bo+objela+in+imela+rada.+Lahko+je+res+izjemno.+MS.+TIPPETT%3A+Ja%2C+je.+Samo+%C5%A1e+nekaj+minut+imamo.+Gledal+sem+panel%2C+mis%20https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F1267%2Fjames-doty-the-magic-shop-of-the-brain-on-being%2F" target="_blank" class="share-icon d-none d-sm-inline-flex" aria-label="Share on WhatsApp"> <i class="fab fa-whatsapp"></i> </a> </div> </div> </div>   <div class="comments-section mt-3 border-top-0"> <a name="addcomment"></a> <h3 class="h5 pb-2 section-header"> <i class="bi bi-chat-quote text-primary"></i> <span>COMMUNITY REFLECTIONS</span> <hr> </h3> <div class="alert alert-success mb-5" role="alert" id="cmtform_box"> <h5 class="card-title mb-3 fw-bold p-0 fs-2">SHARE YOUR REFLECTION</h5> <form id="comment-form" method="post" action="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1267/james-doty-the-magic-shop-of-the-brain-on-being/"> <input type="hidden" name="t" value="addComment"> <input type="hidden" name="story_id" value="1267"> <input type="hidden" name="pcmt_id" id="pcmt_id" value=""> <div id="form-message-container" class="mb-3" style="display:none;"></div> <textarea id="comment_text" name="comment_text" rows="3" class="form-control mb-3" placeholder="Share your thoughts on this story..." required></textarea> <div class="row mt-3"> <div class="col-sm-6"> <div class="input-group mb-3"> <span class="input-group-text"><i class="far fa-user"></i></span> <input type="text" name="comment_name" id="comment_name" value="" class="form-control" placeholder="Your name" required> </div> </div> <div class="col-sm-6"> <div class="input-group mb-3"> <span class="input-group-text"><i class="far fa-envelope"></i></span> <input type="email" name="comment_email" id="comment_email" value="" class="form-control" placeholder="Your email (not published)" required> </div> </div> </div> <div class="d-flex justify-content-between align-items-center mt-3"> <div class="form-check"> <input class="form-check-input" type="checkbox" id="subscribe" name="subscribe" value="1"> <label class="form-check-label" for="subscribe"> Notify me of follow-up comments </label> </div> <div>  <button type="submit" class="btn btn-info px-4 g-recaptcha" data-sitekey="6Ld9FbYpAAAAAGIucyXK_lxDVb-6tDGgPuXN0OPm" data-callback='onSubmit' data-action='submit'> <i class="bi bi-send me-2"></i>Post Comment </button> </div> </div> </form> </div> <script src="https://www.google.com/recaptcha/enterprise.js?render=6Ld9FbYpAAAAAGIucyXK_lxDVb-6tDGgPuXN0OPm"></script> <script> function onSubmit(token) { document.getElementById("comment-form").submit(); }</script> <h3 class="h5 pb-2 section-header mt-5"> <i class="bi bi-people text-success"></i> <span>1 PAST RESPONSES</span> <hr> </h3> <div id="cmtlist" class="mt-4"> <div class="comment-item" id="cmt_5898"> <div class="comment-container"> <div class="comment-avatar"> <img src="https://pod.servicespace.org/pics/mem/blank.jpg" alt="User avatar"> </div> <div class="comment-content-wrapper"> <div class="comment-meta"> <span class="comment-author">Kristin Pedemonti</span> <span class="comment-date">Apr 20, 2016</span> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1267/-p-sledi-zvo-ni-posnetek-in-prepis-intervjuja-onbeing-org-med-kristo-tippett-in-dr-jamesom-dotyjem-p-p-p-iframe-frameborder-no-height-166-scrolling-no-src-https-w-soundcloud-com-player-url-https-3a-api-soundcloud-com-tracks-246548890-and-am-on-being/?t=showComment&cid=5898" class="ms-auto link-icon text-muted"><i class='fa fa-link'></i></a> </div> <div class="comment-content"> <p>I needed this today! thank you for the reminder of the beauty of our hearts and brains, how they connect and how we can see our circumstances in light rather than dark as we hold compassion for each other and ourselves!</p> </div> <div class="comment-actions"> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1267/-p-sledi-zvo-ni-posnetek-in-prepis-intervjuja-onbeing-org-med-kristo-tippett-in-dr-jamesom-dotyjem-p-p-p-iframe-frameborder-no-height-166-scrolling-no-src-https-w-soundcloud-com-player-url-https-3a-api-soundcloud-com-tracks-246548890-and-am-on-being/?t=showComment&cid=5898#addcomment" class="reply-link" data-cmt-id="5898" data-cmt-author="Kristin Pedemonti"><i class="bi bi-reply"></i> Reply</a> <span class="btn-light post_btn small"></span> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <script> $(document).ready(function() { // Toggle between short and full comments $('.see_full_cmt').on('click', function(e) { e.preventDefault(); 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