Back to Stories

What Follows Is the Audio and Transcript of an Interview From On Being, with Brother David Steindl-Rast with Krista Tippett
  <div class="story-meta-container pb-3">  <div class="story-meta-left"> <div class="story-logo"> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org"> <img alt="DailyGood" src="https://www.karunanews.org/pics/90x90.jpg"> </a> </div> <div class="story-meta-info"> <div class="story-author">By <a href="/author?name=On%20Being">On Being</a></div> <div class="story-details"> <span class="story-date">Feb 9, 2016</span> <span class="story-read-time">11 min read</span> </div> <div class="story-source">Source: <a href="http://www.onbeing.org/program/david-steindl-rast-anatomy-of-gratitude/transcript/8366" target="_blank">onbeing.org</a></div> </div> </div>  <div class="story-meta-right">  <div class="utility-buttons"> <div class="dropdown"> <button class="utility-btn translate-btn dropdown-toggle py-1" type="button" id="translationDropdown" data-bs-toggle="dropdown" aria-expanded="false"> <i class="fa fa-language me-2" aria-hidden="true"></i>Cherokee </button> <ul class="dropdown-menu dropdown-menu-end translation-dropdown" aria-labelledby="translationDropdown" style="max-height: 400px; overflow-y: auto;"> <li class="dropdown-header" style="font-size: 11px; color: #6c757d; text-transform: uppercase; letter-spacing: 0.5px;"> <i class="fa fa-globe me-1"></i>Available Languages </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/"> English </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=am"> Amharic </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=ar"> Arabic </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=eu"> Basque </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=bn"> Bengali </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=ca"> Catalan </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item active" href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=chr"> Cherokee </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=zh-CN"> Chinese (PRC) </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=hr"> Croatian </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=cs"> Czech </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=da"> Danish </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=nl"> Dutch </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=et"> Estonian </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=fil"> Filipino </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=fi"> Finnish </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=fr"> French </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=de"> German </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=el"> Greek </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=gu"> Gujarati </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=iw"> Hebrew </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=hi"> Hindi </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=hu"> Hungarian </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=is"> Icelandic </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=id"> Indonesian </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=it"> Italian </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=ja"> Japanese </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=kn"> Kannada </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=ko"> Korean </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=lv"> Latvian </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=lt"> Lithuanian </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=ms"> Malay </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=ml"> Malayalam </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=mr"> Marathi </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=pt-BR"> Portuguese (Brazil) </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=ro"> Romanian </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=ru"> Russian </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=sk"> Slovak </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=sl"> Slovenian </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=es"> Spanish </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=sw"> Swahili </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=sv"> Swedish </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=ta"> Tamil </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=te"> Telugu </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=th"> Thai </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=tr"> Turkish </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=ur"> Urdu </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=vi"> Vietnamese </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item " href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/?lang=cy"> Welsh </a> </li> <li><hr class="dropdown-divider"></li> <li class="dropdown-header" style="font-size: 11px; color: #6c757d; text-transform: uppercase; letter-spacing: 0.5px;"> <i class="fa fa-lock me-1"></i>More Languages <span style="font-size: 10px; text-transform: none; letter-spacing: normal;">(login required)</span> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item text-muted" href="/login?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F1217%2Fanatomy-of-gratitude-on-being%2F%3Flang%3Dbg"> <i class="fa fa-lock me-1" style="font-size: 10px;"></i> Bulgarian </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item text-muted" href="/login?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F1217%2Fanatomy-of-gratitude-on-being%2F%3Flang%3Dzh-TW"> <i class="fa fa-lock me-1" style="font-size: 10px;"></i> Chinese (Taiwan) </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item text-muted" href="/login?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F1217%2Fanatomy-of-gratitude-on-being%2F%3Flang%3Den-GB"> <i class="fa fa-lock me-1" style="font-size: 10px;"></i> English (UK) </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item text-muted" href="/login?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F1217%2Fanatomy-of-gratitude-on-being%2F%3Flang%3Dno"> <i class="fa fa-lock me-1" style="font-size: 10px;"></i> Norwegian </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item text-muted" href="/login?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F1217%2Fanatomy-of-gratitude-on-being%2F%3Flang%3Dpl"> <i class="fa fa-lock me-1" style="font-size: 10px;"></i> Polish </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item text-muted" href="/login?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F1217%2Fanatomy-of-gratitude-on-being%2F%3Flang%3Dpt-PT"> <i class="fa fa-lock me-1" style="font-size: 10px;"></i> Portuguese (Portugal) </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item text-muted" href="/login?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F1217%2Fanatomy-of-gratitude-on-being%2F%3Flang%3Dsr"> <i class="fa fa-lock me-1" style="font-size: 10px;"></i> Serbian </a> </li> <li> <a class="dropdown-item text-muted" href="/login?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F1217%2Fanatomy-of-gratitude-on-being%2F%3Flang%3Duk"> <i class="fa fa-lock me-1" style="font-size: 10px;"></i> Ukrainian </a> </li> </ul> </div> </div>  <div class="share-icons d-none d-md-block"> <a href="http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F1217%2Fanatomy-of-gratitude-on-being%2F" target="_blank" class="share-icon" aria-label="Share on Facebook"> <i class="fab fa-facebook-f"></i> </a> <a href="https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F1217%2Fanatomy-of-gratitude-on-being%2F&text=%3Cp%3EWhat+Follows+Is+the+Audio+and+Transcript+of+an+Interview+From+%3Ca+href%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww.onbeing.org%2Fprogram%2Fdavid-steindl-rast-anatomy-of-gratitude%2Ftranscript%2F8366%22%3EOn+Being%3C%2Fa%3E%2C+with+Brother+David+Steindl-Rast+with+Krista+Tippett%26nbsp%3B%3C%2Fp%3E+%3Ciframe+Framebor%20%3A%20we+must+acknowledge+our+anxiety+about+it.+We+must+acknowledge+our+anxiety.+But+we+must+not+fear.+And+gratefulness+is+...%0D%0A%0D%0AMS.+TIPPETT%3A+We+have+to+acknowledge+our+anxiety%2C+but+we+must+not+fear&via=&hashtags=" target="_blank" class="share-icon" aria-label="Share on Twitter"> <i class="fab fa-twitter"></i> </a> <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/sharing/share-offsite/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F1217%2Fanatomy-of-gratitude-on-being%2F" target="_blank" class="share-icon" aria-label="Share on LinkedIn"> <i class="fab fa-linkedin-in"></i> </a> <a href="https://api.whatsapp.com/send?text=%3Cp%3EWhat+Follows+Is+the+Audio+and+Transcript+of+an+Interview+From+%3Ca+href%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww.onbeing.org%2Fprogram%2Fdavid-steindl-rast-anatomy-of-gratitude%2Ftranscript%2F8366%22%3EOn+Being%3C%2Fa%3E%2C+with+Brother+David+Steindl-Rast+with+Krista+Tippett%26nbsp%3B%3C%2Fp%3E+%3Ciframe+Framebor%20%3A%20we+must+acknowledge+our+anxiety+about+it.+We+must+acknowledge+our+anxiety.+But+we+must+not+fear.+And+gratefulness+is+...%0D%0A%0D%0AMS.+TIPPETT%3A+We+have+to+acknowledge+our+anxiety%2C+but+we+must+not+fear%20https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F1217%2Fanatomy-of-gratitude-on-being%2F" target="_blank" class="share-icon d-none d-sm-inline-flex" aria-label="Share on WhatsApp"> <i class="fab fa-whatsapp"></i> </a> </div> </div> </div>  <div class="story-content" id="dg_story"> <div class="dark-link perm_post"> we must acknowledge our anxiety about it. We must acknowledge our anxiety. But we must not fear. And gratefulness is ...</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: We have to acknowledge our anxiety, but we must not fear.</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: Not fear. There is a great difference. See, anxiety, or anxious, being anxious, this word comes from a root that means “narrowness,” and choking, and the original anxiety is our birth anxiety. We all come into this world through this very uncomfortable process of being born, unless you happen to be a cesarean baby. It’s really a life-and-death struggle for both the mother and the child. And that is the original, the prototype, of anxiety. At that time, we do it fearlessly, because fear is the resistance against this anxiety. See? If you go with it, it brings you into birth. If you resist it, you die in the womb. Or your mother dies.</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: So, anxiety is a — not just an understandable, but a reasonable response to a lot of human experience.</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: It’s a reasonable response, and we are to acknowledge it and affirm it, because to deny our anxiety is another form of resistance.</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: Right. And so, that is reasonable, but the fear is actually that moment of resisting.</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: But the fear is life destroying.</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: And it’s a completely different move, and it takes us, our bodies, our minds, in a completely different direction.</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: Destroys it, yeah. And that is why we can look back at our life, not only at our birth, but at all other spots where we got into really tight spots and suffered anxiety. Anxiety is not optional in life. It’s part of life. We come into life through anxiety. And we look at it, and remember it, and say to ourselves, we made it. We got through it. We made it. In fact, the worst anxieties and the worst tight spots in our life, often, years later, when you look back at them, reveal themselves as the beginning of something completely new, a completely new life.</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: Right, right.</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: And that can teach us, and that can give us courage, also, now, that we think about it, in looking forward and saying, yes, this is a tight spot. It’s about as tight spot as the world has ever been in, or at least humankind. But, if we go with it — and that will be grateful living — if we go with it, it will be a new birth. And that is trust in life. And this going with it means you look, what is the opportunity ...</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: So, and I think, for you, what you’re getting at, for you, gratitude is as much about being present to the moment, but it’s also, to you, about seeing the opportunity in the moment. Beyond...</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: I am seeing the opportunity.</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: ...the current circumstances.</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: And availing yourself of the opportunity.</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: OK. So it’s a very active ...</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: Yeah.</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: It’s very active.</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: And that is very difficult because anxiety has a way of paralyzing us. You see? But what really paralyzes us is fear. It’s not the anxiety, it’s the fear, because it resists. The moment we give up this resistance — and so, everything hinges on this trust in life. Trust. And with this trust, with this faith, we can go into that anxiety and say, it’s terrible, it feels awful. But it may — I trust that it is just another birth into a greater fullness.</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: You’ve said that God is a direction, rather than a something.</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: A direction. Yes, but not an impersonal direction, see?</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: Mm-hmm.</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: There is a wonderful line by Rilke in which he prays to God. You know German so, I’ll say it first in German...</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: And I love Rilke, as you do. Yeah, say it in German, please do.</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: He says, “Ich geh doch immer auf Dich zu, mit meinem ganzen Gehen. Denn wer bin ich und wer bist du, wenn wir uns nicht verstehn?” So he says, “With every step I do, I go towards you. Because who am I and who are you if we don’t understand one another?” See? That is spoken to that great mystery, but when I say mystery, I mean not something vague, I mean something very clear.</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: Well, that gets us back to the sense of belonging. That belonging at the core of ...</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: It’s right in there. I go to you, see? The moment a human being says “I,” at that moment I have posited a “you.” That means I’m saying “I” because I’m related to a “you,” that mysterious “you” that is always here. And in that sense, this mystery is not something impersonal.</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: Mm-hmm. It’s relational.</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: It’s a relation — ultimately everything boils down to relation.</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: Yeah. You also said, I found this such an interesting — “Mysticism is the experience of limitless belonging.”</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: Yes.</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: That mysticism — because, again, I think that’s a word — you use the word “mysticism” in Western culture, and people might think of something very abstract and very elite.</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: No, no. I believe that every one of us is a mystic because we have this experience of belonging once in a while, out of the blue, this — women often say when they give birth to a child, they have it, or when we fall in love, we have this sense of belonging. Or, sometimes, without any particular reason, suddenly out in nature you feel one with everything. And every human being has this. But what we call the great mystics, they let this experience determine and shape every moment of their lives. They never forgot it. And we humans, the rest of us, tend to forget it. We just forget it. But if we keep it in mind, then we are really related to that great mystery. And then we can find joy in it.</p> <p>[<em>music: “Fünf Klavierstücke, Op. 3: I. Andante” by Richard Strauss, performed by Glenn Gould</em>]</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: I’m Krista Tippett, and this is <em>On Being</em>. Today at the Gut Aich Priory in St. Gilgen, Austria, with Br. David Steindl-Rast.</p> <p>[<em>music: “Fünf Klavierstücke, Op. 3: I. Andante” by Richard Strauss, performed by Glenn Gould</em>]</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: It is a very audacious thing that you say, that everyone can be called to be a mystic. That mysticism is not, for you, the domain of professionals. That mysticism is something that is the birthright of every human being.</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: Yeah. The mystic is not a special human being. Every human being is a special kind of mystic. And I never was around that particular kind of mystic that you can be, because you’re unique. Never has anybody brought the talents and also the shortcomings that also belongs to him. And that goes very closely together with what I mean when I say “mystery.” It’s not something mysterious when I say this great mystery, this divine mystery that we are confronted with.</p> <p>And in mysticism experience, that is something that we cannot grasp. You see, we cannot put it in words, we cannot imagine it in an image, we cannot put it in a concept. We cannot grasp it. But we can understand it. There’s a great difference between grasping and understanding. And you understand it by being grasped. It does something to you. And many people experience that on a different level with music. You understand music, but you can’t grasp music. You can’t. What’s there to grasp?</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: And you can’t really talk about it. You can’t ...</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: You can’t even talk about it, because you have no words and concepts. But you can understand it when you allow it to take hold of you, and you give yourself to the music. And that great mystery with — you might call it life, or God, or whatever — that great mystery with which all human beings are always confronted, and that we can also not grasp, obviously, but we can understand by allowing it to do something to us. And that openness can be totally silent. Silent openness is a wonderful form of prayer.</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: One of the ways — you talk about prayer, also in the context of gratitude, as whatever lifts your heart, right? That that’s a way to start talking about the experience of prayer.</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: Yes. And what we experience when we are grateful is that something lifts up our heart, that joy that is gratitude, and that joy is prayer because it lifts up our heart. Whatever lifts up our heart. And we are made for that.</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: Yeah, and you’ve said, “If it’s fishing that lifts up your heart, then fishing is your prayer.”</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: Yeah.</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: Or part of your prayer. I know I have to finish. I guess, just maybe, finally — you studied psychology. And I sense that you’re very aware of how it’s instinctive for us to question gratitude. Maybe this is true in Western culture, right? To question its appropriateness or its purity and also to suspect the motives of others — we get very complicated when we walk into this territory of gratitude — and to withhold gratitude from others.</p> <p>You speak about having the courage to let ourselves down into the depth which gratitude opens up. And I wonder if you would just say a little bit more about that, and maybe how that has come to you, how you have experienced letting yourself down into that depth.</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: Yes. When I speak of depth and so forth, those are all only images, the poetic images that one must not...</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: But it’s very magnetic language, I think.</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: Yeah. Well, poetic language has more power than most other language. So, you wanted me to be personal. When I’m confronted with something, for instance, of which I have to say, “Heavens, for this I can’t be grateful, obviously. And where do I find the opportunity in this?” That’s all too glib and I have to eat my own words.</p> <p>Then I let go of all this, of all this thought, and all this — and I just try to sit quietly. It’s like you take this whole package of things that you don’t particularly like to deal with, and you throw them in the lake. And they go down, and go down, and go down. And then you just quiet yourself. And when you get sufficiently quiet, that may take long, or it may not take very long, and it may not be in one sitting, it may take days or weeks. But when you’ve got sufficiently quiet, then without you having to figure something out, some answer emerges. That’s the best I can do to express it. But we find, somehow, the way through. This throwing it into the lake is like no resistances. You don’t give...</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: OK, so you’re letting...</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: ...don’t feel.</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: ...rid of that fear, that impulse...</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: Let go of the fear.</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: ...to fear.</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: Just accept it. This courage, this quiet holding, holding and — it leads to a new birth. I can’t prove it, but I can encourage you to try, everybody try. And I think you will find it, too.</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: OK. I think that people sense, feel that we’re living in a very dark time. What are you grateful for right now in the world? What gives you hope? Where does your gratitude find an abundant place to land?</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: Well, one thing I have already said that’s on a larger scale, looking back and seeing that all the most difficult experiences always lead to something new and even something better if we trust.</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: Even culturally, even geopolitically.</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: On every level, on every level. But in order to keep us going, it is enough to be grateful for the next breath, because it’s not to be taken for granted. That I can take another breath. And if I think of the millions of people who have breathing difficulties, and here I can breathe. Just to remember that. Just be grateful for the next breath.</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: OK. Thank you so much.</p> <p>BR. STEINDL-RAST: You’re welcome.</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: It’s been really, really wonderful to be here.</p> <p>[<em>music: “Waltzes 6-10, Op. 7” by Johann Strauss, performed by Napoléon Coste</em>]</p> <p>MS. TIPPETT: Br. David Steindl-Rast is the founder and senior advisor for A Network for Grateful Living. His books include <em>Gratefulness: the Heart of Prayer</em>, <em>Belonging to the Universe</em>, and <em>A Listening Heart: The Spirituality of Sacred Sensuousness</em>.</p> <p>If you want more gratitude, Br. David’s website is gratefulness.org, and he’s one of the people featured in a round-up of research and reflection, elementofgratitude.org.</p> <p>At onbeing.org, you can sign up for a weekly email from us, a <em>Letter from Loring Park</em>. In your inbox every Saturday morning — a curated list of the best of what we are reading and publishing, including writings by our guest contributors. This week, you can read scholar of race and belonging john powell. Find his writing and much more at onbeing.org.</p> <p><em>On Being</em> is Trent Gilliss, Chris Heagle, Lily Percy, Mariah Helgeson, Maia Tarrell, Annie Parsons, Marie Sambilay, Tess Montgomery, Aseel Zahran, and Bethanie Kloecker.</p> <p>We were able to go to Austria to visit Br. David through a special gift from the John Templeton Foundation.</p> <p>Special thanks this week also to Margaret Wakeley, Kristi Nelson, Br. Thomas Hessler, and the rest of the staff at Gut Aich Priory in St. Gilgen, Austria.</p> <p>Our major funding partners are:</p> <p>The John Templeton Foundation.</p> <p>The Ford Foundation, working with visionaries at the frontlines of social change worldwide at fordfoundation.org.</p> <p>The Fetzer Institute, fostering awareness of the power of love and forgiveness to transform our world. Find them at fetzer.org.</p> <p>Kalliopeia Foundation, contributing to organizations that weave reverence, reciprocity, and resilience into the fabric of modern life.</p> <p>The Henry Luce Foundation, in support of Public Theology Reimagined.</p> <p>And the Osprey Foundation, a catalyst for healthy, empowered, and fulfilled lives.</p>       </div> </div>    <div class="inline-share-icons border-0 mt-0 pt-0"> <div class="d-flex align-items-center"> <span class="me-3 fw-semibold">Share this story:</span> <div> <a href="http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F1217%2Fanatomy-of-gratitude-on-being%2F" target="_blank" class="share-icon" aria-label="Share on Facebook"> <i class="fab fa-facebook-f"></i> </a> <a href="https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F1217%2Fanatomy-of-gratitude-on-being%2F&text=%3Cp%3EWhat+Follows+Is+the+Audio+and+Transcript+of+an+Interview+From+%3Ca+href%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww.onbeing.org%2Fprogram%2Fdavid-steindl-rast-anatomy-of-gratitude%2Ftranscript%2F8366%22%3EOn+Being%3C%2Fa%3E%2C+with+Brother+David+Steindl-Rast+with+Krista+Tippett%26nbsp%3B%3C%2Fp%3E+%3Ciframe+Framebor%20%3A%20we+must+acknowledge+our+anxiety+about+it.+We+must+acknowledge+our+anxiety.+But+we+must+not+fear.+And+gratefulness+is+...%0D%0A%0D%0AMS.+TIPPETT%3A+We+have+to+acknowledge+our+anxiety%2C+but+we+must+not+fear&via=&hashtags=" target="_blank" class="share-icon" aria-label="Share on Twitter"> <i class="fab fa-twitter"></i> </a> <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/sharing/share-offsite/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F1217%2Fanatomy-of-gratitude-on-being%2F" target="_blank" class="share-icon" aria-label="Share on LinkedIn"> <i class="fab fa-linkedin-in"></i> </a> <a href="https://api.whatsapp.com/send?text=%3Cp%3EWhat+Follows+Is+the+Audio+and+Transcript+of+an+Interview+From+%3Ca+href%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww.onbeing.org%2Fprogram%2Fdavid-steindl-rast-anatomy-of-gratitude%2Ftranscript%2F8366%22%3EOn+Being%3C%2Fa%3E%2C+with+Brother+David+Steindl-Rast+with+Krista+Tippett%26nbsp%3B%3C%2Fp%3E+%3Ciframe+Framebor%20%3A%20we+must+acknowledge+our+anxiety+about+it.+We+must+acknowledge+our+anxiety.+But+we+must+not+fear.+And+gratefulness+is+...%0D%0A%0D%0AMS.+TIPPETT%3A+We+have+to+acknowledge+our+anxiety%2C+but+we+must+not+fear%20https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F1217%2Fanatomy-of-gratitude-on-being%2F" target="_blank" class="share-icon d-none d-sm-inline-flex" aria-label="Share on WhatsApp"> <i class="fab fa-whatsapp"></i> </a> </div> </div> </div>   <div class="comments-section mt-3 border-top-0"> <a name="addcomment"></a> <h3 class="h5 pb-2 section-header"> <i class="bi bi-chat-quote text-primary"></i> <span>COMMUNITY REFLECTIONS</span> <hr> </h3> <div class="alert alert-success mb-5" role="alert" id="cmtform_box"> <h5 class="card-title mb-3 fw-bold p-0 fs-2">SHARE YOUR REFLECTION</h5> <form id="comment-form" method="post" action="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/anatomy-of-gratitude-on-being/"> <input type="hidden" name="t" value="addComment"> <input type="hidden" name="story_id" value="1217"> <input type="hidden" name="pcmt_id" id="pcmt_id" value=""> <div id="form-message-container" class="mb-3" style="display:none;"></div> <textarea id="comment_text" name="comment_text" rows="3" class="form-control mb-3" placeholder="Share your thoughts on this story..." required></textarea> <div class="row mt-3"> <div class="col-sm-6"> <div class="input-group mb-3"> <span class="input-group-text"><i class="far fa-user"></i></span> <input type="text" name="comment_name" id="comment_name" value="" class="form-control" placeholder="Your name" required> </div> </div> <div class="col-sm-6"> <div class="input-group mb-3"> <span class="input-group-text"><i class="far fa-envelope"></i></span> <input type="email" name="comment_email" id="comment_email" value="" class="form-control" placeholder="Your email (not published)" required> </div> </div> </div> <div class="d-flex justify-content-between align-items-center mt-3"> <div class="form-check"> <input class="form-check-input" type="checkbox" id="subscribe" name="subscribe" value="1"> <label class="form-check-label" for="subscribe"> Notify me of follow-up comments </label> </div> <div>  <button type="submit" class="btn btn-info px-4 g-recaptcha" data-sitekey="6Ld9FbYpAAAAAGIucyXK_lxDVb-6tDGgPuXN0OPm" data-callback='onSubmit' data-action='submit'> <i class="bi bi-send me-2"></i>Post Comment </button> </div> </div> </form> </div> <script src="https://www.google.com/recaptcha/enterprise.js?render=6Ld9FbYpAAAAAGIucyXK_lxDVb-6tDGgPuXN0OPm"></script> <script> function onSubmit(token) { document.getElementById("comment-form").submit(); }</script> <h3 class="h5 pb-2 section-header mt-5"> <i class="bi bi-people text-success"></i> <span>1 PAST RESPONSES</span> <hr> </h3> <div id="cmtlist" class="mt-4"> <div class="comment-item" id="cmt_5797"> <div class="comment-container"> <div class="comment-avatar"> <img src="https://pod.servicespace.org/pics/mem/blank.jpg" alt="User avatar"> </div> <div class="comment-content-wrapper"> <div class="comment-meta"> <span class="comment-author">Ben</span> <span class="comment-date">Feb 15, 2016</span> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/-p-what-follows-is-the-audio-and-transcript-of-an-interview-from-a-href-http-www-onbeing-org-program-david-steindl-rast-anatomy-of-gratitude-transcript-8366-on-being-a-with-brother-david-steindl-rast-with-krista-tippett-and-nbsp-p-iframe-framebor-on-being/?t=showComment&cid=5797" class="ms-auto link-icon text-muted"><i class='fa fa-link'></i></a> </div> <div class="comment-content"> <p>* smiles * Thank you.</p> </div> <div class="comment-actions"> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/1217/-p-what-follows-is-the-audio-and-transcript-of-an-interview-from-a-href-http-www-onbeing-org-program-david-steindl-rast-anatomy-of-gratitude-transcript-8366-on-being-a-with-brother-david-steindl-rast-with-krista-tippett-and-nbsp-p-iframe-framebor-on-being/?t=showComment&cid=5797#addcomment" class="reply-link" data-cmt-id="5797" data-cmt-author="Ben"><i class="bi bi-reply"></i> Reply</a> <span class="btn-light post_btn small"></span> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <script> $(document).ready(function() { // Toggle between short and full comments $('.see_full_cmt').on('click', function(e) { e.preventDefault(); var cid = $(this).attr('cid'); $('.short_cmt' + cid).hide(); $('.long_cmt' + cid).show(); }); $('.see_short_cmt').on('click', function(e) { e.preventDefault(); var cid = $(this).attr('cid'); $('.long_cmt' + cid).hide(); $('.short_cmt' + cid).show(); }); }); </script> </div>   </div> </div> </div> </div> </section> <script src="js/story.js?1aud"></script>  <footer class="footer"> <div class="container"> <div class="row"> <div class="col-md-5 mb-4 mb-md-0"> <h5 class="footer-title">About DailyGood</h5> <p class="footer-about-text"> For over 29 years, DailyGood has been a volunteer-led movement to share uplifting stories that connect hearts and inspire action — all without ads, agendas, or asks. Change the story, change the world. </p> <a href="about" class="footer-about-link"> <span>Learn Our Story</span> <i class="bi bi-arrow-right"></i> </a>  </div> <div class="col-md-1 mb-4 mb-md-0"></div> <div class="col-md-3 mb-4 mb-md-0"> <h5 class="footer-title">Get More Engaged</h5> <div class="footer-links"> <a href="subscribe">Subscribe to Our Newsletters</a> <a href="https://pod.servicespace.org/apply/" target="_blank">Join Peer-learning Pods</a> <a href="https://www.awakin.ai" target="_blank">Chat with Compassion AI</a> <a href="https://www.awakin.org/v2/calls" target="_blank">Listen to Awakin Podcast</a> </div> </div> <div class="col-md-3"> <h5 class="footer-title">Connect With Us</h5> <div class="footer-links"> <a href="suggest"><i class="bi bi-lightbulb me-2"></i>Suggest A Story</a> <a href="publish"><i class="bi bi-send me-2"></i>Share Your Story</a> <a href="my"><i class="bi bi-people me-2"></i>Volunteer With Us</a> <a href="contact"><i class="bi bi-envelope me-2"></i>Send An Email</a> </div> </div> </div> <div class="copyright text-center"> <p>DailyGood — a project of <a target='_blank' href="https://www.servicespace.org">ServiceSpace</a>.</p> </div> </div> </footer>  <script src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/npm/bootstrap@5.1.3/dist/js/bootstrap.bundle.min.js"></script>  <script src="https://cdnjs.cloudflare.com/ajax/libs/OwlCarousel2/2.3.4/owl.carousel.min.js"></script>   <script src="js/scripts.js?1aud"></script> <script> (function() { 'use strict'; console.log('SSO: Script starting'); // Skip SSO on dev/coder environments — no production Pod to check against if (window.location.hostname.endsWith('.coder.dev.servicespace.org')) { console.log('SSO: Dev environment detected, skipping SSO check'); return; } // Cooldown periods (in milliseconds) var QUICK_COOLDOWN = 10000; // 10 seconds - between any checks (per-tab) var NOT_LOGGED_IN_TTL = 1800000; // 30 minutes - how long to remember "not logged in" var VISIBILITY_MIN_AGE = 300000; // 5 minutes - min age before tab-switch triggers recheck // When user returns to this tab after being away a while, clear the // "not logged in" cache so we re-check SSO status. This handles the // case where user logs in on another tab/site then returns here. document.addEventListener('visibilitychange', function() { if (document.visibilityState === 'visible') { var checkedAt = parseInt(localStorage.getItem('sso_not_logged_in_at') || '0'); if (checkedAt && (Date.now() - checkedAt >= VISIBILITY_MIN_AGE)) { console.log('SSO: Tab visible after 5+ min, clearing cache for fresh check'); localStorage.removeItem('sso_not_logged_in_at'); sessionStorage.removeItem('sso_last_attempt'); } } }); // Check if user just logged out - skip SSO check to prevent re-login loop if (document.cookie.indexOf('sso_logout=') !== -1) { console.log('SSO: Recent logout detected, skipping check'); // Clear the cookie now that we've respected it document.cookie = 'sso_logout=; expires=Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 UTC; path=/;'; // Also cache that we're not logged in (prevents check on next tab) localStorage.setItem('sso_not_logged_in_at', Date.now().toString()); return; } var urlParams = new URLSearchParams(window.location.search); var ssoToken = urlParams.get('sso_token'); // Handle returning from redirect-based flow with sso_token if (ssoToken) { console.log('SSO: Has sso_token from redirect flow, completing login'); sessionStorage.setItem('sso_last_attempt', Date.now().toString()); // Clear the "not logged in" cache since we're about to log in localStorage.removeItem('sso_not_logged_in_at'); // Clean the URL by removing sso_token parameter var cleanUrl = window.location.href.split('?')[0]; var params = new URLSearchParams(window.location.search); params.delete('sso_token'); params.delete('sso_checked'); var remainingParams = params.toString(); if (remainingParams) { cleanUrl += '?' + remainingParams; } // Redirect to local login endpoint with the token window.location.href = '/sso/login.php?token=' + encodeURIComponent(ssoToken) + '&return=' + encodeURIComponent(cleanUrl); return; } // If sso_checked flag is present, Pod confirmed we're not logged in there if (urlParams.get('sso_checked')) { console.log('SSO: sso_checked param present, user not logged in on Pod'); // Store in localStorage so ALL tabs know we're not logged in localStorage.setItem('sso_not_logged_in_at', Date.now().toString()); sessionStorage.setItem('sso_last_attempt', Date.now().toString()); // Clean sso_checked from URL so it doesn't appear in shared/copied links var params = new URLSearchParams(window.location.search); params.delete('sso_checked'); var clean = params.toString(); var cleanUrl = window.location.pathname + (clean ? '?' + clean : '') + window.location.hash; history.replaceState(null, '', cleanUrl); return; } // Check localStorage cache: are we already confirmed "not logged in"? var notLoggedInAt = parseInt(localStorage.getItem('sso_not_logged_in_at') || '0'); if (notLoggedInAt && (Date.now() - notLoggedInAt < NOT_LOGGED_IN_TTL)) { console.log('SSO: Cached not-logged-in (' + Math.round((NOT_LOGGED_IN_TTL - (Date.now() - notLoggedInAt))/60000) + ' min remaining), skipping'); return; } // Quick cooldown: Don't check too frequently within same tab (10 seconds) var lastAttempt = parseInt(sessionStorage.getItem('sso_last_attempt') || '0'); if (Date.now() - lastAttempt < QUICK_COOLDOWN) { console.log('SSO: Within quick cooldown, skipping check'); return; } // Prevent concurrent checks if (window.ssoChecking) { console.log('SSO: Already checking, skipping'); return; } window.ssoChecking = true; // Helper function to do redirect-based SSO check function doRedirectCheck() { console.log('SSO: Using redirect approach'); sessionStorage.setItem('sso_last_attempt', Date.now().toString()); var returnUrl = encodeURIComponent(window.location.href); window.location.href = 'https://pod.servicespace.org/sso/check.php?return=' + returnUrl; } // Check if we already tried fetch and it failed (use redirect instead) var fetchFailed = sessionStorage.getItem('sso_fetch_failed'); if (fetchFailed) { console.log('SSO: Fetch previously failed, using redirect approach'); sessionStorage.removeItem('sso_fetch_failed'); doRedirectCheck(); return; } console.log('SSO: Starting fetch to Pod status endpoint'); // Try fetch approach first (works when third-party cookies allowed) fetch('https://pod.servicespace.org/sso/status.php', { method: 'GET', credentials: 'include', mode: 'cors', cache: 'no-store' }) .then(function(response) { console.log('SSO: Got response', response.status); if (!response.ok) throw new Error('Network error: ' + response.status); return response.json(); }) .then(function(data) { console.log('SSO: Parsed data', data); sessionStorage.setItem('sso_last_attempt', Date.now().toString()); if (data.logged_in && data.token) { console.log('SSO: User logged in on Pod, redirecting to local login'); // Clear cached "not logged in" since user IS logged in localStorage.removeItem('sso_not_logged_in_at'); window.location.href = '/sso/login.php?token=' + encodeURIComponent(data.token) + '&return=' + encodeURIComponent(window.location.href); } else if (!data.logged_in && data.cookie_present === false) { // Third-party cookies are blocked! // Pod didn't receive any cookies, so it can't know if user is logged in // Try redirect fallback which uses first-party Pod cookie console.log('SSO: Cookies blocked (third-party), trying redirect fallback'); doRedirectCheck(); } else { console.log('SSO: Not logged in on Pod (confirmed with cookies present)'); // User genuinely not logged in on Pod - cache in localStorage localStorage.setItem('sso_not_logged_in_at', Date.now().toString()); window.ssoChecking = false; } }) .catch(function(error) { console.log('SSO: Fetch failed:', error.message); // Mark that fetch failed so we use redirect sessionStorage.setItem('sso_fetch_failed', '1'); sessionStorage.setItem('sso_last_attempt', Date.now().toString()); doRedirectCheck(); }); })(); </script> </body> </html>