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Ifuatayo Ni Sauti Na Nakala Ya Mahojiano Kutoka Kwa On Being , Na Ndugu David Steindl-Rast Pamoja Na Krista Tippett.
  <div class="story-meta-container pb-3">  <div class="story-meta-left"> <div class="story-logo"> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org"> <img alt="DailyGood" src="https://www.karunanews.org/pics/90x90.jpg"> </a> </div> <div class="story-meta-info"> <div class="story-author">By <a href="/author?name=On%20Being">On Being</a></div> <div class="story-details"> <span class="story-date">Feb 9, 2016</span> <span class="story-read-time">9 min read</span> </div> <div class="story-source">Source: <a href="http://www.onbeing.org/program/david-steindl-rast-anatomy-of-gratitude/transcript/8366" target="_blank">onbeing.org</a></div> </div> </div>  <div class="story-meta-right">  <div class="utility-buttons"> <div class="dropdown"> <button class="utility-btn translate-btn dropdown-toggle py-1" type="button" id="translationDropdown" data-bs-toggle="dropdown" aria-expanded="false"> <i class="fa fa-language me-2" aria-hidden="true"></i>Swahili </button> <ul class="dropdown-menu dropdown-menu-end 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Ni lazima tukubali wasiwasi wetu. Lakini hatupaswi kuogopa. Na kushukuru ni ...</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Tunapaswa kukiri wasiwasi wetu, lakini hatupaswi kuogopa.</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Usiogope. Kuna tofauti kubwa. Tazama, wasiwasi, au wasiwasi, kuwa na wasiwasi, neno hili linatokana na mzizi unaomaanisha "wembamba," na kuzisonga, na wasiwasi wa awali ni wasiwasi wetu wa kuzaliwa. Sote tunakuja katika ulimwengu huu kupitia mchakato huu usio na raha wa kuzaliwa, isipokuwa kama wewe ni mtoto wa upasuaji. Kwa kweli ni pambano la kufa na kupona kwa mama na mtoto. Na hiyo ndiyo asili, mfano, wa wasiwasi. Wakati huo, tunafanya bila woga, kwa sababu hofu ni upinzani dhidi ya wasiwasi huu. Unaona? Ukienda nayo, inakuletea kuzaliwa. Ukipinga, unakufa tumboni. Au mama yako anakufa.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Kwa hivyo, wasiwasi ni - sio tu kueleweka, lakini jibu la busara kwa uzoefu mwingi wa mwanadamu.</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Ni jibu la kuridhisha, na tunapaswa kulikubali na kulithibitisha, kwa sababu kukataa wasiwasi wetu ni aina nyingine ya upinzani.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Sawa. Na hivyo, hiyo ni busara, lakini hofu ni kweli wakati huo wa kupinga.</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Lakini hofu ni kuharibu maisha.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Na ni hatua tofauti kabisa, na inatupeleka sisi, miili yetu, akili zetu katika mwelekeo tofauti kabisa.</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Inaiharibu, ndio. Na ndiyo sababu tunaweza kutazama nyuma maisha yetu, si tu katika kuzaliwa kwetu, lakini katika maeneo mengine yote ambapo tuliingia katika maeneo magumu sana na kuteswa na wasiwasi. Wasiwasi sio hiari maishani. Ni sehemu ya maisha. Tunaingia katika maisha kupitia wasiwasi. Na tunaiangalia, na kuikumbuka, na tunajiambia, tumeifanya. Tumepitia. Tumefanikiwa. Kwa kweli, wasiwasi mbaya zaidi na maeneo mabaya zaidi katika maisha yetu, mara nyingi, miaka baadaye, unapowaangalia nyuma, hujidhihirisha wenyewe kama mwanzo wa kitu kipya kabisa, maisha mapya kabisa.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Sawa, sawa.</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Na hiyo inaweza kutufundisha, na hiyo inaweza kutupa ujasiri, pia, sasa, kwamba tunafikiri juu yake, kwa kuangalia mbele na kusema, ndiyo, hii ni doa tight. Ni karibu mahali pagumu kama vile ulimwengu umewahi kuwa, au angalau wanadamu. Lakini, ikiwa tutaenda nayo - na hiyo itakuwa maisha ya shukrani - ikiwa tutaenda nayo, itakuwa kuzaliwa upya. Na hiyo ndiyo imani katika maisha. Na hii kwenda nayo inamaanisha unaangalia, ni fursa gani ...</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Kwa hivyo, na nadhani, kwako, kile unachopata, kwako, shukrani ni sawa na kuwa sasa hivi, lakini pia, kwako, juu ya kuona fursa kwa sasa. Zaidi ya...</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Ninaona fursa.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: ... hali ya sasa.</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Na kujipatia fursa hiyo.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Sawa. Kwa hivyo ni kazi sana ...</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Ndio.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Inatumika sana.</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Na hiyo ni ngumu sana kwa sababu wasiwasi una njia ya kutupooza. Unaona? Lakini kinachotupooza sana ni woga. Sio wasiwasi, ni hofu, kwa sababu inapinga. Wakati tunapoacha upinzani huu - na kwa hivyo, kila kitu kinategemea uaminifu huu maishani. Amini. Na kwa imani hii, kwa imani hii, tunaweza kuingia katika wasiwasi huo na kusema, ni mbaya, inahisi mbaya. Lakini inaweza - ninaamini kuwa ni kuzaliwa tena kwa ukamilifu zaidi.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Umesema kwamba Mungu ni mwelekeo, badala ya kitu.</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Mwelekeo. Ndiyo, lakini si mwelekeo usio na utu, unaona?</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Mm-hmm.</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Kuna mstari mzuri sana wa Rilke ambamo anaomba kwa Mungu. Unajua Kijerumani kwa hivyo, nitasema kwanza kwa Kijerumani ...</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Na ninampenda Rilke, kama wewe. Ndio, sema kwa Kijerumani, tafadhali fanya.</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Anasema, "Ich geh doch immer auf Dich zu, mit meinem ganzen Gehen. Denn wer bin ich und wer bist du, wenn wir uns nicht verstehn?" Kwa hiyo anasema, "Kwa kila hatua ninayopiga, ninaenda kwako. Kwa sababu mimi ni nani na wewe ni nani ikiwa hatuelewani?" Unaona? Hilo linazungumzwa kwa fumbo hilo kuu, lakini ninaposema fumbo, ninamaanisha si kitu kisichoeleweka, ninamaanisha kitu kilicho wazi sana.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Kweli, hiyo inaturudisha kwenye hali ya kuwa mali. Hiyo ni ya msingi wa ...</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Ni moja kwa moja huko. Ninaenda kwako, unaona? Wakati mwanadamu anaposema "mimi," wakati huo nimeweka "wewe." Hiyo inamaanisha ninasema “mimi” kwa sababu ninahusiana na “wewe,” “wewe” huyo wa ajabu ambaye yuko hapa kila wakati. Na kwa maana hiyo, siri hii si kitu kisicho na utu.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Mm-hmm. Ni ya kimahusiano.</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Ni uhusiano - hatimaye kila kitu kinatokana na uhusiano.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Ndio. Ulisema pia, nimeona hii kuwa ya kufurahisha - "Usiri ni uzoefu wa kuwa mali isiyo na kikomo."</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Ndiyo.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Fumbo hilo - kwa sababu, tena, nadhani hilo ni neno - unatumia neno "mysticism" katika utamaduni wa Magharibi, na watu wanaweza kufikiria kitu cha kufikirika sana na cha wasomi sana.</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Hapana, hapana. Ninaamini kwamba kila mmoja wetu ni fumbo kwa sababu tuna uzoefu huu wa kuwa mali mara moja kwa wakati, nje ya bluu, hii - mara nyingi wanawake husema wanapozaa mtoto, wanayo, au tunapoanguka kwa upendo, tuna hisia hii ya mali. Au, wakati mwingine, bila sababu maalum, ghafla nje katika asili unahisi moja na kila kitu. Na kila mwanadamu ana hii. Lakini kile tunachokiita mafumbo wakuu, wanaruhusu uzoefu huu kuamua na kuunda kila wakati wa maisha yao. Hawakuisahau kamwe. Na sisi wanadamu, sisi wengine, huwa tunasahau. Tunasahau tu. Lakini tukiiweka akilini, basi tunahusiana sana na fumbo hilo kuu. Na kisha tunaweza kupata furaha ndani yake.</p><p> [ <em>Muziki: “Fünf Klaviestücke, Op. 3: I. Andante” na Richard Strauss, ulioimbwa na Glenn Gould</em> ]</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Mimi ni Krista Tippett, na hii ni <em>On Being</em> . Leo katika Ukumbi wa Gut Aich huko St. Gilgen, Austria, pamoja na Br. David Steindl-Rast.</p><p> [ <em>Muziki: “Fünf Klaviestücke, Op. 3: I. Andante” na Richard Strauss, ulioimbwa na Glenn Gould</em> ]</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Ni jambo la busara sana ambalo unasema, kwamba kila mtu anaweza kuitwa kuwa mtu wa ajabu. Fumbo hilo sio, kwako, kikoa cha wataalamu. Fumbo hilo ni jambo ambalo ni haki ya kuzaliwa ya kila mwanadamu.</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Ndio. The mystic si binadamu maalum. Kila mwanadamu ni aina maalum ya fumbo. Na sikuwahi kuwa karibu na aina hiyo ya ajabu ambayo unaweza kuwa, kwa sababu wewe ni wa kipekee. Kamwe hakuna mtu aliyeleta talanta na pia mapungufu ambayo pia ni yake. Na hiyo inaendana kwa karibu sana na kile ninachomaanisha ninaposema "siri." Si jambo la ajabu ninaposema fumbo hili kuu, fumbo hili la kimungu ambalo tunakabiliana nalo.</p><p> Na katika uzoefu wa fumbo, hilo ni jambo ambalo hatuwezi kufahamu. Unaona, hatuwezi kuiweka kwa maneno, hatuwezi kufikiria kwa picha, hatuwezi kuiweka katika dhana. Hatuwezi kufahamu. Lakini tunaweza kuielewa. Kuna tofauti kubwa kati ya kufahamu na kuelewa. Na unaielewa kwa kushikwa. Inakufanyia kitu. Na watu wengi hupitia hilo kwa kiwango tofauti na muziki. Unaelewa muziki, lakini huwezi kufahamu muziki. Huwezi. Kuna nini cha kufahamu?</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Na huwezi kuzungumza juu yake. Huwezi...</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Huwezi hata kuzungumza juu yake, kwa sababu huna maneno na dhana. Lakini unaweza kuielewa unapoiruhusu ikushike, na kujitoa kwenye muziki. Na siri hiyo kuu na - unaweza kuiita uzima, au Mungu, au chochote - siri hiyo kuu ambayo wanadamu wote wanakabiliwa nayo daima, na ambayo hatuwezi pia kufahamu, kwa wazi, lakini tunaweza kuelewa kwa kuruhusu kufanya kitu fulani kwetu. Na uwazi huo unaweza kuwa kimya kabisa. Uwazi wa kimya ni aina ya ajabu ya maombi.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Mojawapo ya njia - unazungumza kuhusu maombi, pia katika muktadha wa shukrani, kama chochote kinachoinua moyo wako, sivyo? Kwamba hiyo ndiyo njia ya kuanza kuzungumzia uzoefu wa maombi.</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Ndiyo. Na kile tunachopitia tunaposhukuru ni kwamba kitu fulani huinua mioyo yetu, hiyo furaha ambayo ni shukrani, na furaha hiyo ni maombi kwa sababu inainua mioyo yetu. Chochote kinachoinua mioyo yetu. Na tumeumbwa kwa ajili hiyo.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Ndio, na umesema, "Ikiwa ni uvuvi unaoinua moyo wako, basi uvuvi ni maombi yako."</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Ndio.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Au sehemu ya maombi yako. Najua ni lazima nimalize. Nadhani, labda, hatimaye - ulisoma saikolojia. Na ninahisi kuwa unajua sana jinsi ilivyo kawaida kwetu kuuliza shukrani. Labda hii ni kweli katika utamaduni wa Magharibi, sivyo? Ili kutilia shaka ufaafu wake au usafi wake na pia kutilia shaka nia za wengine - tunakuwa mgumu sana tunapoingia katika eneo hili la shukrani - na kukataa shukrani kutoka kwa wengine.</p><p> Unazungumza juu ya kuwa na ujasiri wa kujishusha ndani ya kina ambacho shukrani hufungua. Nami nashangaa kama ungesema tu zaidi kidogo kuhusu hilo, na labda jinsi hilo lilivyokujia, jinsi ulivyopitia kujishusha katika kina hicho.</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Ndiyo. Ninapozungumzia kina na kadhalika, hizo zote ni taswira tu, taswira za kishairi ambazo mtu hatakiwi...</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Lakini ni lugha ya sumaku sana, nadhani.</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Ndio. Naam, lugha ya kishairi ina nguvu zaidi kuliko lugha nyingine nyingi. Kwa hivyo, ulitaka niwe kibinafsi. Ninapokabiliwa na jambo fulani, kwa mfano, ambalo ninalazimika kusema, "Mbingu, kwa hili siwezi kushukuru, kwa wazi. Na ninapata wapi nafasi katika hili?" Hiyo yote ni glib sana na lazima nile maneno yangu mwenyewe.</p><p> Kisha nikaacha haya yote, mawazo haya yote, na haya yote - na ninajaribu tu kukaa kimya. Ni kama vile unachukua kifurushi hiki chote cha vitu ambavyo hupendi kushughulika navyo, na kuvitupa ziwani. Nao wanashuka, na kushuka, na kushuka. Na kisha wewe tu kimya mwenyewe. Na unapopata utulivu wa kutosha, hiyo inaweza kuchukua muda mrefu, au inaweza kuchukua muda mrefu sana, na inaweza kuwa katika kikao kimoja, inaweza kuchukua siku au wiki. Lakini unapokuwa na utulivu wa kutosha, basi bila wewe kufahamu kitu, jibu fulani huibuka. Hilo ndilo bora niwezalo kufanya ili kulieleza. Lakini tunapata, kwa njia fulani, njia ya kupitia. Hii kuitupa ziwani ni kama hakuna upinzani. Hutoi...</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Sawa, kwa hivyo unaruhusu...</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: ...usijisikie.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: ...ondoa woga huo, msukumo huo...</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Acha woga.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: ... kuogopa.</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Ikubali tu. Ujasiri huu, kushikilia kwa utulivu, kushikilia na - husababisha kuzaliwa upya. Siwezi kuthibitisha hilo, lakini ninaweza kukuhimiza ujaribu, kila mtu ajaribu. Na nadhani utapata, pia.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Sawa. Nadhani watu wanahisi, wanahisi kwamba tunaishi katika wakati wa giza sana. Unashukuru nini sasa hivi duniani? Nini kinakupa tumaini? Shukrani yako inapata wapi mahali pazuri pa kutua?</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Kweli, jambo moja ambalo tayari nimesema, ni kwa kiwango kikubwa zaidi, nikitazama nyuma na kuona kwamba matukio yote magumu zaidi daima husababisha kitu kipya na hata kitu bora zaidi ikiwa tunaamini.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Hata kiutamaduni, hata kijiografia na kisiasa.</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Katika kila ngazi, kwa kila ngazi. Lakini ili kutufanya tuendelee, inatosha kushukuru kwa pumzi inayofuata, kwa sababu haipaswi kuchukuliwa kwa urahisi. Kwamba naweza kuvuta pumzi nyingine. Na ikiwa ninafikiria mamilioni ya watu ambao wana shida ya kupumua, na hapa ninaweza kupumua. Ili tu kukumbuka hilo. Kuwa na shukrani tu kwa pumzi inayofuata.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Sawa. Asante sana.</p><p> BR. STEINDL-RAST: Karibu.</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Imekuwa kweli, ajabu sana kuwa hapa.</p><p> [ <em>muziki: “Waltzes 6-10, Op. 7” na Johann Strauss, ulioimbwa na Napoléon Coste</em> ]</p><p> MS. TIPPETT: Bw. David Steindl-Rast ndiye mwanzilishi na mshauri mkuu wa Mtandao wa Kuishi kwa Kushukuru. Vitabu vyake ni pamoja na <em>Kushukuru: Moyo wa Sala</em> , <em>Kuwa wa Ulimwengu</em> , na <em>Moyo Unaosikiliza: Hali ya Kiroho ya Hisia Takatifu</em> .</p><p> Ikiwa unataka shukrani zaidi, Br. Tovuti ya David ni gratefulness.org, na ni mmoja wa watu walioangaziwa katika mkusanyiko wa utafiti na tafakari, elementofgratitude.org.</p><p> Katika onbeing.org, unaweza kujiandikisha kwa barua pepe ya kila wiki kutoka kwetu, <em>Barua kutoka Loring Park</em> . Katika kikasha chako kila Jumamosi asubuhi - orodha iliyoratibiwa ya bora zaidi kati ya yale tunayosoma na kuchapisha, ikiwa ni pamoja na maandishi ya wachangiaji wetu walioalikwa. Wiki hii, unaweza kusoma mwanachuo wa mbio na mali john powell. Tafuta maandishi yake na mengi zaidi kwenye onbeing.org.</p><p> <em>On Being</em> ni Trent Gilliss, Chris Heagle, Lily Percy, Mariah Helgeson, Maia Tarrell, Annie Parsons, Marie Sambilay, Tess Montgomery, Aseel Zahran, na Bethanie Kloecker.</p><p> Tuliweza kwenda Austria kumtembelea Br. David kupitia zawadi maalum kutoka kwa John Templeton Foundation.</p><p> Shukrani za pekee wiki hii pia kwa Margaret Wakeley, Kristi Nelson, Br. Thomas Hessler, na wafanyakazi wengine katika Kipaumbele cha Gut Aich huko St. Gilgen, Austria.</p><p> Washirika wetu wakuu wa ufadhili ni:</p><p> Msingi wa John Templeton.</p><p> Wakfu wa Ford, wakifanya kazi na wenye maono katika mstari wa mbele wa mabadiliko ya kijamii duniani kote kwenye fordfoundation.org.</p><p> Taasisi ya Fetzer, inakuza ufahamu wa nguvu ya upendo na msamaha ili kubadilisha ulimwengu wetu. 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'?' + clean : '') + window.location.hash; history.replaceState(null, '', cleanUrl); return; } // Check localStorage cache: are we already confirmed "not logged in"? var notLoggedInAt = parseInt(localStorage.getItem('sso_not_logged_in_at') || '0'); if (notLoggedInAt && (Date.now() - notLoggedInAt < NOT_LOGGED_IN_TTL)) { console.log('SSO: Cached not-logged-in (' + Math.round((NOT_LOGGED_IN_TTL - (Date.now() - notLoggedInAt))/60000) + ' min remaining), skipping'); return; } // Quick cooldown: Don't check too frequently within same tab (10 seconds) var lastAttempt = parseInt(sessionStorage.getItem('sso_last_attempt') || '0'); if (Date.now() - lastAttempt < QUICK_COOLDOWN) { console.log('SSO: Within quick cooldown, skipping check'); return; } // Prevent concurrent checks if (window.ssoChecking) { console.log('SSO: Already checking, skipping'); return; } window.ssoChecking = true; // Helper function to do redirect-based SSO check function doRedirectCheck() { console.log('SSO: Using redirect approach'); sessionStorage.setItem('sso_last_attempt', Date.now().toString()); var returnUrl = encodeURIComponent(window.location.href); window.location.href = 'https://pod.servicespace.org/sso/check.php?return=' + returnUrl; } // Check if we already tried fetch and it failed (use redirect instead) var fetchFailed = sessionStorage.getItem('sso_fetch_failed'); if (fetchFailed) { console.log('SSO: Fetch previously failed, using redirect approach'); sessionStorage.removeItem('sso_fetch_failed'); doRedirectCheck(); return; } console.log('SSO: Starting fetch to Pod status endpoint'); // Try fetch approach first (works when third-party cookies allowed) fetch('https://pod.servicespace.org/sso/status.php', { method: 'GET', credentials: 'include', mode: 'cors', cache: 'no-store' }) .then(function(response) { console.log('SSO: Got response', response.status); if (!response.ok) throw new Error('Network error: ' + response.status); return response.json(); }) .then(function(data) { console.log('SSO: Parsed data', data); sessionStorage.setItem('sso_last_attempt', Date.now().toString()); if (data.logged_in && data.token) { console.log('SSO: User logged in on Pod, redirecting to local login'); // Clear cached "not logged in" since user IS logged in localStorage.removeItem('sso_not_logged_in_at'); window.location.href = '/sso/login.php?token=' + encodeURIComponent(data.token) + '&return=' + encodeURIComponent(window.location.href); } else if (!data.logged_in && data.cookie_present === false) { // Third-party cookies are blocked! // Pod didn't receive any cookies, so it can't know if user is logged in // Try redirect fallback which uses first-party Pod cookie console.log('SSO: Cookies blocked (third-party), trying redirect fallback'); doRedirectCheck(); } else { console.log('SSO: Not logged in on Pod (confirmed with cookies present)'); // User genuinely not logged in on Pod - cache in localStorage localStorage.setItem('sso_not_logged_in_at', Date.now().toString()); window.ssoChecking = false; } }) .catch(function(error) { console.log('SSO: Fetch failed:', error.message); // Mark that fetch failed so we use redirect sessionStorage.setItem('sso_fetch_failed', '1'); sessionStorage.setItem('sso_last_attempt', Date.now().toString()); doRedirectCheck(); }); })(); </script> </body> </html>