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<div class="story-meta-left"> <div class="story-logo"> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org"> <img alt="DailyGood" src="https://www.karunanews.org/pics/90x90.jpg"> </a> </div> <div class="story-meta-info"> <div class="story-author">By <a href="/author?name=On%20Being">On Being</a></div> <div class="story-details"> <span class="story-date">Jan 15, 2019</span> <span class="story-read-time">8 min read</span> </div> <div class="story-source">Source: <a href="https://onbeing.org/programs/rachel-naomi-remen-the-difference-between-fixing-and-healing-nov2018/" target="_blank">onbeing.org</a></div> </div> </div>  <div class="story-meta-right">  <div class="utility-buttons"> <div class="dropdown"> <button class="utility-btn translate-btn dropdown-toggle py-1" type="button" id="translationDropdown" data-bs-toggle="dropdown" aria-expanded="false"> <i class="fa fa-language me-2" aria-hidden="true"></i>Slovenian </button> <ul class="dropdown-menu dropdown-menu-end translation-dropdown" 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<div class="dark-link perm_post"> Neprijeten del te zgodbe je, da sem temu verjel. Naslednjih 15 let nisem nikoli podvomil v ta sklep. Mislim, da lahko prevelika znanstvena objektivnost oslepi.</p><p> GDČA TIPPETT: Kaj menite zdaj?</p><p> DR. REMEN: Mislim, da je bilo to eno najbolj purističnih srečanj s skrivnostnostjo v mojem življenju. Zaradi tega se sprašujem, kdo smo, kaj je mogoče za nas, kako ta svet v resnici deluje. Nimam odgovorov, imam pa veliko vprašanj, in ta vprašanja so mi pomagala živeti bolje kot kateri koli odgovor, ki bi ga morda našel.</p><p> [ <em>glasba: “Hem” Tvärvägen</em> ]</p><p> GDČA TIPPETT: Jaz sem Krista Tippett in to je <em>oddaja O bivanju</em> . Danes z dr. Rachel Naomi Remen.</p><p> GDČA TIPPETT: Nekaj, kar se mi je zdelo zanimivo, ko pišete o delu z zdravniki – poskušate jim pomagati, da se sprijaznijo z izgubo in da jo razumejo kot del svojega dela, svojega življenja, svojega delovnega življenja. Ampak spet govorite o zdravnikih, a na koncu podate zanimiva opažanja o izgubi, ki veljajo za vse nas. Povejte mi, kaj ste se naučili o izgubi.</p><p> DR. REMEN: No, zdaj bomo začeli s peturnim ... [ <em>smeh</em> ] Manjši, Krista, naredi ga manjšim. [ <em>smeh</em> ]</p><p> GDČA TIPPETT: No, prav. Tukaj je stavek, ki sem si ga zapisala: »Način, kako se spopadamo z izgubo, bolj kot karkoli drugega oblikuje našo sposobnost, da smo prisotni v življenju. Način, kako se zaščitimo pred izgubo, je lahko način, kako se od življenja distanciramo.«</p><p> DR. REMEN: Mislim, da je to popolnoma pravilno.</p><p> GDČA TIPPETT: To je resnično šokantna misel.</p><p> DR. REMEN: Mislim, da je prav. Prav tako mislim, da se nihče ne počuti udobno z izgubo. Ker smo tehnološka kultura, je naša želja oziroma naš prvi odziv na izgubo poskusiti jo popraviti. Ko se znajdemo v situaciji, ko se soočimo z izgubo, ki je ni mogoče popraviti, kar je veliko izgub, se počutimo nemočne in nelagodno ter se nagibamo k temu, da pobegnemo, bodisi čustveno bodisi se dejansko distanciramo. In popravljanje je premajhna strategija za spopadanje z izgubo. Kar učimo študente, je nekaj zelo preprostega.</p><p> GDČA TIPPETT: Študenti medicine?</p><p> DR. REMEN: Ja. Učimo jih moči njihove prisotnosti, preprosto biti tam in poslušati ter biti priča drugi osebi ter skrbeti za njeno izgubo, ji pustiti, da je pomembna. O izgubi imamo šest ur, dve triurni seji, učenci pa imajo zelo preprosto navodilo, in sicer, da se spomnijo zgodbe o izgubi iz lastnega življenja in izgube – recimo drugače – časa, ko stvari niso šle po njihovih načrtih, ko so bili razočarani, ko so izgubili sanje ali odnos ali celo družinskega člana, smrt.</p><p> Izberejo si lahko, nato pa šest ur preživijo v majhnih skupinah in se pogovarjajo o svoji izgubi. Skupina ima eno navodilo: Poslušajte radodarno. Pred to vajo z njimi naredimo še eno vajo, pri kateri jih prosimo, naj se spomnijo časa razočaranja in izgube ter nekoga, ki jim je pomagal. Kaj je ta oseba storila? Kaj je rekla? Kakšno sporočilo jim je posredovala, kar jim je bilo v pomoč v težkem času njihovega življenja? In te stvari zelo konkretno zapišejo. Nato jih prosimo, naj se spomnijo časa izgube v svojem življenju in se spomnijo nekoga, ki jim je želel pomagati, a jim ni bil v pomoč. Kaj je ta oseba storila in rekla, kakšno sporočilo jim je posredovala in kako ga je posredovala? In to zapišejo.</p><p> In potem naredimo dolg seznam. »Katere stvari so vse pomagale?« »Poslušali so me toliko časa, kolikor sem potreboval.« »Pogovarjali so se z mano na enak način po moji izgubi kot pred njo.« »Sedeli so z mano.« »Dotikali so se me.« »Prinesli so mi hrano.« Kaj pa ni pomagalo? »Dali so mi nasvet, ne da bi poznali celotno zgodbo.« »Dali so mi občutek, da je bila izguba moja krivda.« Tako smo od skupine približno sto študentov in profesorjev zbrali modrost o tem, kaj pomaga pri celjenju izgube, in vse je zelo preprosto. In edino navodilo je: Poslušajte velikodušno.</p><p> GDČA TIPPETT: Spet me to spomni na to, kako smo začeli govoriti o moči zgodb v človeških življenjih, in na vašo analogijo, da so zgodbe meso, ki ga položimo na kosti dejstev o naših življenjih. Mislim, da je tako močno že samo pomisliti na to očitno dejstvo, a spet eno od teh očitnih dejstev, ki jih ne omenjamo pogosto, je, da izguba ni le katastrofalna smrt. V našem življenju se ves čas dogaja veliko različnih vrst izgub, in potem ta osupljiva ideja, ki jo predstavljate, da lahko način, kako se spopadamo s temi izgubami, velikimi in majhnimi, resnično pomaga ali pa nam ovira način, kako se spopadamo s preostalim delom svojega življenja, s tem, kar imamo. Ne le s tem, kar smo izgubili.</p><p> DR. REMEN: Mislim, da je tako. Resnično. Kako naj to povem? Večina ljudi se poskuša oklepati stvari, ki ni več del njihovega življenja, in se na ta način ustavijo v svojem življenju. Na izgubo sem prišel in jo začel dojemati kot stopnjo v procesu. To ni bistvo. To ni konec zgodbe. Kar se zgodi potem, je zelo, zelo pomembno. In ljudje se na izgube odzivajo različno. Ko sem prvič zbolel, sem bil besen. Sovražil sem vse zdrave ljudi. Čutil sem se, da sem žrtev, in to je bilo nepošteno. Jezen sem bil približno 10 let. Mislim, da je bila vsa ta jeza moja volja do življenja, izražena na zelo negativen način.</p><p> Ljudje so pogosto jezni ob hudi izgubi. Pogosto zavidajo drugim ljudem in to je izhodišče. Toda sčasoma se stvari razvijajo in spreminjajo. In vsaj ljudje, ki so veliko izgubili, lahko prepoznajo, da niso žrtve, ampak preživeli. To so ljudje, ki so v preteklosti našli moč, da so prebrodili nekaj, kar si morda niso mogli predstavljati. In če ljudem zastavimo to vprašanje: "Utrpeli ste res veliko izgubo. Na kaj ste se obrnili za svojo moč?" Večina ljudi sploh ni opazila svoje moči. Popolnoma so osredotočeni na svojo bolečino.</p><p> GDČA TIPPETT: Glede njihove izgube.</p><p> DR. REMEN: Na njihovo bolečino. In ali ni to naravno, Krista?</p><p> GDČA TIPPETT: Skozi vse vaše pisanje je nekaj zelo upanja polnega, tudi ko govorite o izgubi in trdi, temni plati človeškega bivanja. Mislim, vztrajate – in nisem prepričana, da sodobna psihiatrija vztraja pri tem – da je integriteta dosegljiva za vsakogar, da jo vidite doseči pri ljudeh, včasih pa pride tudi pri ljudeh v krizi. Pravite, da celovitost ni nikoli izgubljena, ampak le pozabljena.</p><p> DR. REMEN: Celovitost vključuje vse naše rane. Vključuje vse naše ranljivosti. Je naš pristni jaz in ne sodi naših ran ali ranljivosti. Preprosto pravi: »Tako se povezujemo drug z drugim.« Pogosto se povezujemo skozi svoje rane, skozi modrost, ki smo jo pridobili, skozi rast, ki se nam je zgodila. Ker smo bili ranjeni, nam to omogoča, da pomagamo drugim ljudem. Torej to ni moralna sodba. Integriteta preprosto pomeni tisto, kar je resnica, živeti iz tistega dela v sebi, ki ima največjo resnico. In ta resnica se prav tako nenehno razvija.</p><p> [ <em>glasba: “Dawn” Jacoba Montaguea</em> ]</p><p> GDČA TIPPETT: Rachel Naomi Remen je ustanoviteljica Inštituta Remen za preučevanje zdravja in bolezni, klinična profesorica družinske medicine na Medicinski fakulteti UCSF in profesorica družinske medicine na Medicinski fakulteti Boonshoft na Državni univerzi Wright. Med njenimi priljubljenimi knjigami sta <em>Modrost kuhinjske mize</em> in <em>Blagoslovi mojega dedka</em> .</p><p> OSEBJE: V oddaji On <em>Being igrajo</em> Chris Heagle, Lily Percy, Mariah Helgeson, Maia Tarrell, Marie Sambilay, Erinn Farrell, Laurén Dørdal, Tony Liu, Bethany Iverson, Erin Colasacco, Kristin Lin, Profit Idowu, Casper ter Kuile, Angie Thurston, Sue Phillips, Eddie Gonzalez, Lilian Vo, Lucas Johnson, Damon Lee, Suzette Burley in Katie Gordon.</p><p> GDČA TIPPETT: In v teh dneh okoli zahvalnega dne imamo tudi tradicijo, da se zahvalimo vsem ljudem, ki omogočajo nastajanje <em>filma On Being</em> v zakulisju. Med njimi so:</p><p> Heather Wang, naša prepisovalka; Brian Carmody, naš predstavnik za stike z javnostmi; Tom Fletcher, Jim Hessian in ekipa pri Two Betty's, partnerji v našem prostoru Loring Park; Jerry Colonna in čudoviti ljudje pri Reboot. Kristin Jones Pierre in njena ekipa pri Faegre Baker Daniels. Heidi Grinde, Mary Warner, Hannah Ericksen, Michele Wagman in naši partnerji pri Clifton Larson Allen ter naša odhajajoča člana upravnega odbora Julie Zelle in Jeffrey Walker.</p><p> [ <em>glasba: “Time” skupine City of the Sun</em> ]</p><p> Zelo smo hvaležni tudi Micahu Thorju, Joeju Kesslerju in ljudem iz Tech Guruja; Emily Oberman in našim izjemnim oblikovalskim partnerjem pri Pentagramu; Titu Bottitti, Emily Theis, Andyju Raderju, Holly Copeland, Nicku Braici in celotni ekipi pri Upstatementu; Keithu Yamashiti in ljudem iz SY Partners; ter PRX – javni radijski centrali – vključno s Kerri Hoffman, Johnom Barthom, Kathleen Unwin, Seanom Nesbittom, Andrewom Kuklewiczem in Palomo Orozco.</p><p> Posebna zahvala gre Multiverziteti 1440 in vsem ljudem, ki so se prijavili, se udeležili ali uživali v naših posnetkih s srečanja The On Being – nenehni skupnosti in energiji, ki je bila v preteklem letu še posebej vesela.</p><p> Imeli smo tudi srečo, da smo sodelovali z vrsto izjemnih organizacij, vključno z Obamovo fundacijo, Zvezo za reformni judovski svet, Univerzo v Montani–Missouli in javnim radiom Montane, Muzejem spomina na holokavst Združenih držav Amerike, ArtReach St. Croix, B'Nai Jeshurun, organizacijo Women Moving Millions, Komornim orkestrom St. Paul, Ministrstvom za izobraževanje okrožja Orange, Festivalom poezije Geraldine R. Dodge, mrežo za novinarstvo Solutions in festivalom ženskih podkastov Werk It studia WNYC.</p><p> [ <em>glasba: “Everything” skupine City of the Sun</em> ]</p><p> In končno, naš ljubljeni svet modrosti, Jay Cowles in Konda Mason. Hvala.</p><p> Našo čudovito glasbeno podlago je ustvarila in napisala Zoë Keating. Zadnji glas, ki ga boste slišali peti v odjavni špici vsake predstave, pa je hip-hop izvajalka Lizzo.</p><p> <em>Projekt On Being</em> je nastal pri American Public Media. Naši finančni partnerji vključujejo:</p><p> Inštitut Fetzer pomaga graditi duhovne temelje za ljubeč svet. Najdete jih na fetzer.org.</p><p> Fundacija Kalliopeia si prizadeva ustvariti prihodnost, kjer univerzalne duhovne vrednote tvorijo temelj skrbi za naš skupni dom.</p><p> Humanity United, spodbujanje človekovega dostojanstva doma in po svetu. Več informacij najdete na humanityunited.org, ki je del skupine Omidyar.</p><p> Fundacija Henryja Luceja v podporo projektu Public Theology Reimagined.</p><p> Fundacija Osprey – katalizator za opolnomočeno, zdravo in izpolnjeno življenje.</p><p> In Lilly Endowment, zasebna družinska fundacija s sedežem v Indianapolisu, ki je posvečena interesom svojih ustanoviteljev na področju religije, razvoja skupnosti in izobraževanja.</p> </div> </div>    <div class="inline-share-icons border-0 mt-0 pt-0"> <div class="d-flex align-items-center"> <span class="me-3 fw-semibold">Share this story:</span> <div> <a href="http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F2207%2Fthe-difference-between-fixing-and-healing-on-being%2F" target="_blank" class="share-icon" aria-label="Share on Facebook"> <i class="fab fa-facebook-f"></i> </a> <a href="https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F2207%2Fthe-difference-between-fixing-and-healing-on-being%2F&text=%3Ciframe+frameborder%3D%22no%22+height%3D%22300%22+scrolling%3D%22no%22+src%3D%22https%3A%2F%2Fw.soundcloud.com%2Fplayer%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F533017170%26amp%3Bcolor%3D%2523ff5500%26amp%3Bauto_play%3Dfalse%26amp%3Bhide_related%3Dfalse%26amp%3Bshow_comments%3Dtrue%26amp%3Bshow_user%3Dtrue%26amp%3Bshow_%20%3A%20Neprijeten+del+te+zgodbe+je%2C+da+sem+temu+verjel.+Naslednjih+15+let+nisem+nikoli+podvomil+v+ta+sklep.+Mislim%2C+da+lahko+prevelika+znanstvena+objektivnost+oslepi.+GD%C4%8CA+TIPPETT%3A+Kaj+menite+zdaj%3F&via=&hashtags=" target="_blank" class="share-icon" aria-label="Share on Twitter"> <i class="fab fa-twitter"></i> </a> <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/sharing/share-offsite/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F2207%2Fthe-difference-between-fixing-and-healing-on-being%2F" target="_blank" class="share-icon" aria-label="Share on LinkedIn"> <i class="fab fa-linkedin-in"></i> </a> <a href="https://api.whatsapp.com/send?text=%3Ciframe+frameborder%3D%22no%22+height%3D%22300%22+scrolling%3D%22no%22+src%3D%22https%3A%2F%2Fw.soundcloud.com%2Fplayer%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F533017170%26amp%3Bcolor%3D%2523ff5500%26amp%3Bauto_play%3Dfalse%26amp%3Bhide_related%3Dfalse%26amp%3Bshow_comments%3Dtrue%26amp%3Bshow_user%3Dtrue%26amp%3Bshow_%20%3A%20Neprijeten+del+te+zgodbe+je%2C+da+sem+temu+verjel.+Naslednjih+15+let+nisem+nikoli+podvomil+v+ta+sklep.+Mislim%2C+da+lahko+prevelika+znanstvena+objektivnost+oslepi.+GD%C4%8CA+TIPPETT%3A+Kaj+menite+zdaj%3F%20https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F2207%2Fthe-difference-between-fixing-and-healing-on-being%2F" target="_blank" class="share-icon d-none d-sm-inline-flex" aria-label="Share on WhatsApp"> <i class="fab fa-whatsapp"></i> </a> </div> </div> </div>   <div class="comments-section mt-3 border-top-0"> <a name="addcomment"></a> <h3 class="h5 pb-2 section-header"> <i class="bi bi-chat-quote text-primary"></i> <span>COMMUNITY REFLECTIONS</span> <hr> </h3> <div class="alert alert-success mb-5" role="alert" id="cmtform_box"> <h5 class="card-title mb-3 fw-bold p-0 fs-2">SHARE YOUR REFLECTION</h5> <form id="comment-form" method="post" action="https://www.dailygood.org/story/2207/the-difference-between-fixing-and-healing-on-being/"> <input type="hidden" name="t" value="addComment"> <input type="hidden" name="story_id" value="2207"> <input type="hidden" name="pcmt_id" id="pcmt_id" value=""> <div id="form-message-container" class="mb-3" style="display:none;"></div> <textarea id="comment_text" name="comment_text" rows="3" class="form-control mb-3" placeholder="Share your thoughts on this story..." required></textarea> <div class="row mt-3"> <div class="col-sm-6"> <div class="input-group mb-3"> <span class="input-group-text"><i class="far fa-user"></i></span> <input type="text" name="comment_name" id="comment_name" value="" class="form-control" placeholder="Your name" required> </div> </div> <div class="col-sm-6"> <div class="input-group mb-3"> <span class="input-group-text"><i class="far fa-envelope"></i></span> <input type="email" name="comment_email" id="comment_email" value="" class="form-control" placeholder="Your email (not published)" required> </div> </div> </div> <div class="d-flex justify-content-between align-items-center mt-3"> <div class="form-check"> <input class="form-check-input" type="checkbox" id="subscribe" name="subscribe" value="1"> <label class="form-check-label" for="subscribe"> Notify me of follow-up comments </label> </div> <div>  <button type="submit" class="btn btn-info px-4 g-recaptcha" data-sitekey="6Ld9FbYpAAAAAGIucyXK_lxDVb-6tDGgPuXN0OPm" data-callback='onSubmit' data-action='submit'> <i class="bi bi-send me-2"></i>Post Comment </button> </div> </div> </form> </div> <script src="https://www.google.com/recaptcha/enterprise.js?render=6Ld9FbYpAAAAAGIucyXK_lxDVb-6tDGgPuXN0OPm"></script> <script> function onSubmit(token) { document.getElementById("comment-form").submit(); }</script> <h3 class="h5 pb-2 section-header mt-5"> <i class="bi bi-people text-success"></i> <span>1 PAST RESPONSES</span> <hr> </h3> <div id="cmtlist" class="mt-4"> <div class="comment-item" id="cmt_7937"> <div class="comment-container"> <div class="comment-avatar"> <img src="https://pod.servicespace.org/pics/mem/blank.jpg" alt="User avatar"> </div> <div class="comment-content-wrapper"> <div class="comment-meta"> <span class="comment-author">Patrick Watters</span> <span class="comment-date">Jan 15, 2019</span> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/2207/-iframe-frameborder-no-height-300-scrolling-no-src-https-w-soundcloud-com-player-url-https-3a-api-soundcloud-com-tracks-533017170-and-color-23ff5500-and-auto-play-false-and-hide-related-false-and-show-comments-true-and-show-user-true-and-show-on-being/?t=showComment&cid=7937" class="ms-auto link-icon text-muted"><i class='fa fa-link'></i></a> </div> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Wise spiritual leaders (sages) know the truth of the true self and that too of the “wounded healer” (Nouwen). }:- 💔~❤️ anonemoose monk</p> </div> <div class="comment-actions"> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/2207/-iframe-frameborder-no-height-300-scrolling-no-src-https-w-soundcloud-com-player-url-https-3a-api-soundcloud-com-tracks-533017170-and-color-23ff5500-and-auto-play-false-and-hide-related-false-and-show-comments-true-and-show-user-true-and-show-on-being/?t=showComment&cid=7937#addcomment" class="reply-link" data-cmt-id="7937" data-cmt-author="Patrick Watters"><i class="bi bi-reply"></i> Reply</a> <span class="btn-light post_btn small"></span> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <script> $(document).ready(function() { // Toggle between short and full comments $('.see_full_cmt').on('click', function(e) { e.preventDefault(); 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