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<div class="story-meta-left"> <div class="story-logo"> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org"> <img alt="DailyGood" src="https://www.karunanews.org/pics/90x90.jpg"> </a> </div> <div class="story-meta-info"> <div class="story-author">By <a href="/author?name=On%20Being">On Being</a></div> <div class="story-details"> <span class="story-date">Jan 15, 2019</span> <span class="story-read-time">1 min read</span> </div> <div class="story-source">Source: <a href="https://onbeing.org/programs/rachel-naomi-remen-the-difference-between-fixing-and-healing-nov2018/" target="_blank">onbeing.org</a></div> </div> </div>  <div class="story-meta-right">  <div class="utility-buttons"> <div class="dropdown"> <button class="utility-btn translate-btn dropdown-toggle py-1" type="button" id="translationDropdown" data-bs-toggle="dropdown" aria-expanded="false"> <i class="fa fa-language me-2" aria-hidden="true"></i>Chinese (PRC) </button> <ul class="dropdown-menu dropdown-menu-end translation-dropdown" 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target="_blank" class="share-icon d-none d-sm-inline-flex" aria-label="Share on WhatsApp"> <i class="fab fa-whatsapp"></i> </a> </div> </div> </div>  <div class="story-content" id="dg_story"> <div class="dark-link perm_post"> 这件事最令人尴尬的地方在于，我竟然相信了这一点。在接下来的15年里，我从未质疑过这个结论。我认为，过分强调科学的客观性会让人盲目。</p><p>蒂佩特女士：你现在怎么想？</p><p>雷门博士：我认为那是我一生中经历过的最纯粹的与神秘的邂逅之一。它让我思考我们是谁，我们拥有哪些可能性，以及这个世界究竟是如何运作的。我没有答案，但我有很多疑问，而这些疑问比我可能找到的任何答案都更能帮助我更好地生活。</p><p> [<em>音乐：Tvärvägen 的《Hem》</em> ]</p><p>蒂佩特女士：我是克丽斯塔·蒂佩特，这里是<em>《论存在》</em> 。今天我们邀请到了瑞秋·娜奥米·雷门博士。</p><p>蒂佩特女士：您在谈到与医生共事时，发现您努力让他们坦然面对失去，并理解这是他们工作、生活和职业生涯的一部分，这一点很有意思。虽然您谈论的是医生，但您最终提出的关于失去的有趣见解也适用于我们所有人。请您谈谈您对失去的感悟。</p><p>雷门医生：好吧，现在我们要开始一个五小时的……[<em>笑</em>]克丽丝塔，缩短点，缩短点。[<em>笑</em>]</p><p>蒂佩特女士：好的。我写下的这句话是：“我们应对失去的方式，比其他任何因素都更能塑造我们活在当下的能力。我们保护自己免受失去的方式，或许正是我们与生活疏离的方式。”</p><p>雷门博士：我认为这完全正确。</p><p>蒂佩特女士：这真是个令人震惊的想法。</p><p>雷门博士：我认为你说得对。我也认为没有人能坦然面对失去。我们生活在科技时代，面对失去，我们的第一反应往往是想办法弥补。但当我们遭遇无法弥补的损失时——这种情况很常见——我们会感到无助和不安，往往会选择逃避，无论是情感上的逃避还是实际的疏离。而仅仅试图弥补损失，对于应对失去来说远远不够。我们教给学生的其实很简单。</p><p>蒂佩特女士：医学生们？</p><p>雷门博士：是的。我们教他们如何发挥自身的力量，仅仅是陪伴在旁，倾听，见证他人，关心他人的失去，让这种失去变得重要。我们用六个小时的时间来讲解失去，分两次，每次三小时。学生们会收到一个非常简单的指示：回忆自己生活中一段失去的经历。这段失去——换句话说——是指事情不如意、令人失望、失去梦想、失去一段关系，甚至是失去亲人的经历。</p><p>他们可以自行选择，然后花六个小时分组讨论各自的失落经历。小组只有一个要求：认真倾听。在此之前，我们会先进行另一个练习，请他们回忆一段令他们失望和失落的经历，并回忆起曾经帮助过他们的人。这个人做了什么？说了什么？在他们人生的艰难时刻，这个人传递了什么信息对他们有所帮助？他们需要把这些具体的事情写下来。然后，我们会请他们回忆一段令他们失落的经历，并回忆起一个想要帮助他们却最终没有帮上忙的人。这个人做了什么？说了什么？传递了什么信息？又是如何传递的？他们也需要把这些写下来。</p><p>然后我们列了一张长长的清单。“哪些事情对我有帮助？”“他们耐心倾听，直到我完全倾诉完毕。”“在我失去亲人之后，他们仍然像之前那样与我交谈。”“他们陪伴着我。”“他们抚摸着我。”“他们给我带了食物。”哪些事情没有帮助呢？“在不了解全部情况的情况下就给我建议。”“让我觉得失去亲人是我的错。”就这样，我们从大约一百名学生和教职工那里收集到了关于如何帮助人们走出悲伤的智慧，而这些智慧其实都很简单。唯一的要求就是：用心倾听。</p><p>蒂佩特女士：这让我想起了我们最初讨论的故事在人类生活中的力量，以及您之前提到的，故事就像血肉，赋予了我们生活事实以意义。我认为，仅仅是思考这个显而易见的事实就非常有力，但我们却很少提及这个显而易见的事实：失去不仅仅是灾难性的死亡。生活中，我们时时刻刻都会经历各种各样的失去。您提出的这个观点令人震惊：我们如何应对这些大大小小的失去，会真正影响我们如何面对生活中的其他一切，如何珍惜我们所拥有的，而不仅仅是我们失去的。</p><p>雷门医生：我觉得确实如此。真的。该怎么说呢？大多数人试图抓住那些已经不再属于他们生活的东西，并因此阻碍了自己前进。我逐渐把失去看作是一个过程中的一个阶段。它不是终点，也不是故事的结局。接下来发生的事情非常非常重要。而且每个人应对失去的方式都不同。我刚生病的时候，非常愤怒。我恨所有健康的人。我觉得自己是受害者，这很不公平。我愤怒了大约十年。我想，所有这些愤怒都是我求生欲以一种非常消极的方式表达出来的。</p><p>人们在经历巨大损失时常常会感到愤怒。他们常常会嫉妒他人，而这只是最初的想法。但随着时间的推移，情况会发生变化。至少，那些遭受过巨大损失的人能够意识到，他们不是受害者，而是幸存者。他们是找到了力量，克服了过去或许难以想象的困境的人。只要问问他们：“你遭受了非常沉重的打击。你从哪里汲取了力量？”大多数人甚至都没有意识到自己的力量。他们完全沉浸在痛苦之中。</p><p>蒂佩特女士：关于他们的损失。</p><p>雷门医生：关于他们的痛苦。克丽丝塔，这难道不是人之常情吗？</p><p>蒂佩特女士：你的文字中始终贯穿着一种充满希望的力量，即便是在描写失去和人性中艰难黑暗的一面时也是如此。我的意思是，你坚持认为——而我不确定现代精神病学是否也坚持这一点——每个人都能获得人性的完整性，你亲眼见证了它降临到人们身上，有时甚至在危机时刻降临到人们身上。你说，完整性从未真正消失，它只是被遗忘了。</p><p>雷门博士：完整包含我们所有的创伤，包含我们所有的脆弱。它是我们真实的自我，它不会评判我们的创伤或脆弱。它只是说：“这就是我们彼此连接的方式。”我们常常通过创伤、通过我们从中获得的智慧、通过我们自身的成长来建立联系。正因为我们曾受过创伤，我们才能更好地帮助他人。所以，这并非道德评判。正直仅仅意味着真实，意味着从你内心深处最伟大的真理出发去生活。而这真理也始终在不断发展演变。</p><p> [<em>音乐：雅各布·蒙塔古的《黎明》</em> ]</p><p>蒂佩特女士：雷切尔·娜奥米·雷门是雷门健康与疾病研究所的创始人，加州大学旧金山分校医学院家庭医学临床教授，以及莱特州立大学布恩肖夫特医学院家庭医学教授。她备受喜爱的著作包括<em>《厨房里的智慧》</em>和<em>《祖父的祝福》</em> 。</p><p>员工：On <em>Being 的成员</em>包括 Chris Heagle、Lily Percy、Mariah Helgeson、Maia Tarrell、Marie Sambilay、Erinn Farrell、Laurén Dørdal、Tony Liu、Bethany Iverson、Erin Colasacco、Kristin Lin、Profit Idowu、Casper ter Kuile、Angie Thurston、Sue Phillips、Eddie Gonzalez、Lilian Vo、Lucas Johnson、Damon Lee、Suzette Burley 和 Katie Gordon。</p><p>蒂佩特女士：在感恩节前后，我们还有一个传统，那就是感谢所有在幕后为<em>《On Being》节目</em>付出努力的人们。他们包括：</p><p>感谢我们的转录员Heather Wang；我们的新闻联络员Brian Carmody；我们在Loring Park的合作伙伴Two Betty's的Tom Fletcher、Jim Hessian和团队；Reboot的Jerry Colonna和各位出色的同事；Faegre Baker Daniels的Kristin Jones Pierre和她的团队；Clifton Larson Allen的Heidi Grinde、Mary Warner、Hannah Ericksen、Michele Wagman和我们的合作伙伴，以及即将卸任的董事会成员Julie Zelle和Jeffrey Walker。</p><p> [<em>音乐：City of the Sun 的《Time》</em> ]</p><p>我们还要特别感谢 Micah Thor、Joe Kessler 和 Tech Guru 的各位；Emily Oberman 和 Pentagram 的杰出设计合作伙伴；Tito Bottitta、Emily Theis、Andy Rader、Holly Copeland、Nick Braica 和 Upstatement 团队的所有成员；Keith Yamashita 和 SY Partners 的各位；以及 PRX（公共广播交流平台）——包括 Kerri Hoffman、John Barth、Kathleen Unwin、Sean Nesbitt、Andrew Kuklewicz 和 Paloma Orozco。</p><p>特别感谢 1440 Multiversity 以及所有申请、参加或欣赏我们“On Being Gathering”录音的人们——这是一个持续的社区和能量，也是过去一年中特别令人愉悦的事情。</p><p>我们也十分荣幸能与众多杰出的组织合作，包括奥巴马基金会、改革犹太教联盟、蒙大拿大学米苏拉分校和蒙大拿公共广播电台、美国大屠杀纪念博物馆、圣克罗伊岛艺术推广组织、B'Nai Jeshurun、百万女性行动组织、圣保罗室内乐团、奥兰治县教育局、杰拉尔丁·R·道奇诗歌节、解决方案新闻网以及WNYC工作室的“Werk It Women”播客节。</p><p> [<em>音乐：City of the Sun 的《Everything》</em> ]</p><p>最后，感谢我们敬爱的智慧顾问团成员杰伊·考尔斯和康达·梅森。谢谢你们。</p><p>我们优美的主题曲由佐伊·基廷创作并演唱。每集片尾字幕中最后出现的歌声则来自嘻哈歌手莉佐。</p><p> <em>《On Being》</em>由美国公共媒体制作。我们的资助伙伴包括：</p><p>费策尔研究所致力于为充满爱的世界奠定精神基础。访问 fetzer.org 了解更多信息。</p><p> Kalliopeia 基金会致力于创造一个以普世精神价值观为基础，关爱我们共同家园的未来。</p><p> Humanity United 致力于在国内和世界各地提升人类尊严。了解更多信息，请访问 humanityunited.org，该组织隶属于奥米迪亚集团。</p><p>亨利·卢斯基金会支持“重新构想公共神学”。</p><p>鱼鹰基金会——致力于促进人们拥有充满力量、健康和充实的生活。</p><p>还有礼来基金会，这是一个总部位于印第安纳波利斯的私人家族基金会，致力于其创始人对宗教、社区发展和教育的兴趣。</p> </div> </div>    <div class="inline-share-icons border-0 mt-0 pt-0"> <div class="d-flex align-items-center"> <span class="me-3 fw-semibold">Share this story:</span> <div> <a href="http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F2207%2Fthe-difference-between-fixing-and-healing-on-being%2F" target="_blank" class="share-icon" aria-label="Share on Facebook"> <i class="fab fa-facebook-f"></i> </a> <a 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href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/2207/-iframe-frameborder-no-height-300-scrolling-no-src-https-w-soundcloud-com-player-url-https-3a-api-soundcloud-com-tracks-533017170-and-color-23ff5500-and-auto-play-false-and-hide-related-false-and-show-comments-true-and-show-user-true-and-show-on-being/?t=showComment&cid=7937" class="ms-auto link-icon text-muted"><i class='fa fa-link'></i></a> </div> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Wise spiritual leaders (sages) know the truth of the true self and that too of the “wounded healer” (Nouwen). }:- 💔~❤️ anonemoose monk</p> </div> <div class="comment-actions"> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/2207/-iframe-frameborder-no-height-300-scrolling-no-src-https-w-soundcloud-com-player-url-https-3a-api-soundcloud-com-tracks-533017170-and-color-23ff5500-and-auto-play-false-and-hide-related-false-and-show-comments-true-and-show-user-true-and-show-on-being/?t=showComment&cid=7937#addcomment" class="reply-link" data-cmt-id="7937" data-cmt-author="Patrick 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