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<div class="story-meta-left"> <div class="story-logo"> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org"> <img alt="DailyGood" src="https://www.karunanews.org/pics/90x90.jpg"> </a> </div> <div class="story-meta-info"> <div class="story-author">By <a href="/author?name=On%20Being">On Being</a></div> <div class="story-details"> <span class="story-date">May 28, 2019</span> <span class="story-read-time">12 min read</span> </div> <div class="story-source">Source: <a href="https://onbeing.org/programs/wangari-maathai-marching-with-trees/" target="_blank">onbeing.org</a></div> </div> </div>  <div class="story-meta-right">  <div class="utility-buttons"> <div class="dropdown"> <button class="utility-btn translate-btn dropdown-toggle py-1" type="button" id="translationDropdown" data-bs-toggle="dropdown" aria-expanded="false"> <i class="fa fa-language me-2" aria-hidden="true"></i>Croatian </button> <ul class="dropdown-menu dropdown-menu-end translation-dropdown" aria-labelledby="translationDropdown" 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id="dg_story"> <div class="dark-link perm_post"> televizija, ako negdje postoji sukob, vrlo brzo kažemo da trebamo mirovne snage; a te mirovne snage su dosta često vojnici iz područja gdje vlada mir. Tako iznenada shvatite da ste možda u miru, ali vaš sin ili vaš muž je taj koji sada mora otići i pokušati održati mir tamo gdje je mir ugrožen. Tako da to postaje stvarno važno pitanje za sve nas, bez obzira jesmo li bogati ili siromašni.</p><p> Nedavno sam bio u Japanu. Imao sam veliku sreću jer sam naišao na riječ mottainai, što je japanski budistički koncept koji je ukorijenjen u japanskoj kulturi, a koji potiče ljude da ne rasipaju resurse. A to je bilo posebno istinito, rekli su mi…</p><p> <b>Gđa Tippett:</b> To je duhovni koncept.</p><p> <b>Gospođa Maathai:</b> Da, to je duhovni koncept. I zapravo, ovaj mi je aspekt iznio redovnik. Mislim da se zove Monk Mori iz Kyoto hrama. Ušli smo i čuo me kako javno koristim tu riječ, i rekao je, tako sam sretan što koristite tu riječ mottainai, jer je to riječ koju Japanci više ne koriste jer im je neugodno reći ne rasipajte resurse, jer imaju toliko toga — ili primajte resurse sa zahvalnošću, primajte ono što dobivate od Majke Zemlje sa zahvalnošću ili od prirode sa zahvalnošću. Obično o tome ne razmišljamo. Obično ne zahvaljujemo prirodi što nam je dala ono što čini.</p><p> I podsjetio me na kršćanski koncept da budemo čuvari okoliša, resursa, a ne...</p><p> <b>Gospođa Tippett:</b> “Stewardship” je dobra kršćanska riječ.</p><p> <b>Gospođa Maathai:</b> Da, upravljanje. Vrlo sam sretan što nas teolozi sada stvarno sve više i više potiču da o sebi razmišljamo kao o čuvarima, upraviteljima, a ne o dominantnim gospodarima, znate. Dakle, ovo, dolazi iz zemlje poput Japana, vrlo je, vrlo...</p><p> <b>Gđa Tippett:</b> Vrlo je zanimljivo.</p><p> <b>Gospođa Maathai:</b> Vrlo je zanimljivo i vrlo, vrlo dobro. I bio sam jako sretan što su, jer je to bila njihova riječ, kad sam ga počeo koristiti, rekli: "Oh, ovo je tako divno." Rekao sam, "Da." A posebno zato što u industrijaliziranim zemljama kao što je Amerika imate tehnologiju, imate kapital, imate vještine, možete zapravo koristiti puno resursa koje, umjesto da ih rasipate, možete reciklirati pomoću tehnologije, i stoga možete pomoći da se uštedi onoliko resursa koji se koriste u svijetu. Ali vidite, ako postanete rastrošni, ako niste zahvalni, ako ne reciklirate — jer zašto biste reciklirali kad možete kupiti više — uvijek morate imati na umu: Ali tamo postoje milijarde koje nemaju dovoljno ni za preživljavanje, a kamoli da odluče trebaju li smanjiti ili ponovno koristiti.</p><p> <b>Gđa Tippett:</b> Ljudima je teško - da se te milijarde čine stvarnima, utjecati na male sićušne odluke koje se donose u svakodnevnom životu o tome hoće li nešto reciklirati.</p><p> <b>Gospođa Maathai:</b> Upravo tako. Izgledaju udaljeno jer im prilično često ne vidimo lica osim kad umiru i njihova lica prinesemo televiziji u našim dnevnim sobama. I onda vrlo brzo nazovemo svoje predstavnike i kažemo im: "Učinite nešto s ovim ljudima koji umiru u ovom kutu svijeta." Ali to se stalno događa.</p><p> [ <em>glazba: “Cinquante Six” Ali Farka Touréa</em> ]</p><p> <b>Gđa Tippett:</b> Ja sam Krista Tippett, a ovo je <em>On Being</em> . Današnji moj arhivski razgovor s pokojnom dobitnicom Nobelove nagrade za mir Wangari Maathai. Bivši kenijski vladar Daniel arap Moi javno ju je nazvao luđakinjom. Uhićena je i pretučena zbog prosvjeda protiv ilegalne sječe i otimanja zemlje — i jednom zbog vođenja povijesnog marša žena koje su zahtijevale oslobađanje svojih sinova iz političkih zatvora Daniela arap Moija.</p><p> <b>Gospođa Tippett:</b> Toliko vašeg rada bilo je sa ženama i puno pišete o ravnoteži moći između muškaraca i žena. I htio sam pitati smatrate li to, ravnotežu moći između muškaraca i žena, također pitanjem održivosti?</p><p> <b>Gospođa Maathai:</b> Istina je da smo svi ionako resursi. Mi smo ljudski resurs. A najveći problem koji smo imale, posebno u ženskom pokretu, pokušavamo uvjeriti drugu polovicu da smo vrlo važan resurs i dajemo veliki doprinos, te da nas stoga treba poštovati, treba nas cijeniti, naš rad treba kvantificirati, treba nas nagraditi i da nas ne treba uzimati zdravo za gotovo. Sada, nažalost, prije 30 godina, 1975., kao što sam ranije rekao, kada smo se sastali da odemo u Meksiko, išli smo tamo jer smo željeli …</p><p> <b>Gđa Tippett:</b> Za Konferenciju žena Ujedinjenih naroda, prva.</p><p> <b>Gospođa Maathai:</b> … Ženska konferencija, prva. I upravo smo na toj konferenciji proglasili žensko desetljeće. Očito smo napravili velike korake i trebali bismo biti jako, jako ponosni na korake koje smo napravili. No istina je da su žene još uvijek vrlo necijenjen resurs u mnogim društvima. Vidim kako se brzo žene, čak i vrlo kompetentne žene, žrtvuju na oltaru političke pogodnosti.</p><p> <b>Gđa Tippett:</b> To je jaka rečenica. Ovih godina nisu sve bile vesele ceremonije sadnje drveća. Znam da su te prezirali, proganjali i tukli. Suprotstavili ste se moćnim silama. I niste znali, kad je sve ovo počelo, da će postati tako veliko, da ćete osnovati ovaj veliki pokret, da ćete dobiti Nobelovu nagradu za mir. Što vas je zadržalo? Koja ste sredstva crpili u najtežim vremenima?</p><p> <b>Gospođa Maathai:</b> Sada, opet, vjerojatno bih rekla da je to ono gdje su iskustvo i način na koji su ljudi oblikovali vjernici napravili veliku razliku - da iako nisam ispovijedala svoju vjeru, sasvim sam sigurna da sam bila utemeljena na onom moralnom vlaknu želje da učinim pravu stvar. Bio sam toliko siguran da je to prava stvar jer sam mogao vidjeti. Bilo je sasvim očito. A znali su i oni koji su me progonili, a znao sam i da znaju.</p><p> <b>Gđa Tippett:</b> Jeste li znali da činite pravu stvar?</p><p> <b>Gospođa Maathai:</b> Da, znali su da radim pravu stvar, ali nisu htjeli da to učinim jer im je bilo neugodno. I znao sam to, činjenicu da ljudi imaju pravo na čistu pitku vodu. Dakle, svatko tko tamo zagađuje tu vodu zna da radi pogrešnu stvar, zna da to ne bi trebao činiti. Svatko tko zadire u slivove odakle dolaze ti nasipi tako da se neki nasipi počnu sušiti, taj zna da radi krivu stvar. I zato što on to radi da bi se obogatio, i on se bogati resursima koje mu je povjerila javnost, a on zna da javnost ne zna, a ako i zna, previše se boji da ga izazove. Dakle, mene, kad izazivam, on si može priuštiti zastrašivanje, može si priuštiti ismijavanje, jer ja sam sama. Ali ja sam nekako — imala sam to uvjerenje da sam u pravu, i on to zna.</p><p> <b>Gđa Tippett:</b> Sada mi zvuči kao da ste uvijek pretpostavljali da postoji moral, savjest negdje, čak i unutar ljudi koji su bili - ili sposobnost da vidite ono što ste vi vidjeli o tome što je ispravno.</p><p> <b>Gospođa Maathai:</b> Bilo je previše očito da ljudi ne vide.</p><p> <b>Gđa. Tippett:</b> Da, ali također bi bilo moguće da te ljude jednostavno otpišete, borite se protiv njih, proglasite ih zlima. Znaš li što govorim?</p><p> <b>Gospođa Maathai:</b> Ali ja nisam imala moć ništa im učiniti. Imali su moć. Zato su me mogli uhititi; mogli bi me odvesti u zatvor; mogli bi me javno ismijavati. Imali su moć. Nisam imao moć. Nisam mogao ništa učiniti. Dakle, jedina stvar koju sam imao, opcija koju sam imao je bila raditi s tim običnim ljudima i pokušati ih poučiti. U početku nisam predavao. Ali postupno, kad sam vidio da se ljudi iskorištavaju jer su neupućeni, počeo sam čitati Bibliju, Hošeinu knjigu...</p><p> <b>Gđa Tippett:</b> Čitanje proroka?</p><p> <b>Gospođa Maathai:</b> Da, prorok. Htio sam znati što su proroci učinili kad su se te stvari dogodile? I čitao sam o Hošeinoj knjizi. Ponekad je fascinantno čitati o tim starim biblijskim pričama i vidjeti - a ponekad se priče koje čitate gotovo ponavljaju u svijetu u kojem živimo. Tako sam čitao, na primjer, Hošeinu knjigu prilično često, a ona govori o tom proroku koji je poslan narodu Izraela da im kaže da će nestati jer su toliko neuki. A on je rekao, ti si neznalica, čak su i svećenici neuki, i ne slušaš upute Gospodnje, i tako ćeš propasti.</p><p> Tako sam vidio doslovce da naš narod propada jer je bio neuk. Nisu razumjeli veze između problema s kojima su se suočavali i degradacije okoliša koja im se događala ispod nogu.</p><p> <b>Gospođa Tippett:</b> To je također zanimljiv model, jer ono što su proroci radili, ono što ste vi radili na neki način je vrijeđanje vlastitog naroda za njihovo dobro.</p><p> <b>Gospođa Maathai:</b> Da, reći im to - otvorite oči i vidite da je ono što radimo vrlo, vrlo važno. Nemojte se prestrašiti; ne dajte se nagovoriti ovim ljudima koji su na vlasti, jer što god rade, rade protiv vašeg dobra i dobra vaše djece. Zato barem sadite drveće, zaboga. A sadnjom drveća nikome ne nanosite štetu. Ne škodiš im. Ali znao sam da im se ne sviđa to što radim.</p><p> <b>Gđa Tippett:</b> To je neka vrsta ekološkog oblika građanskog neposluha, sadnje drveća.</p><p> <b>Gospođa Maathai:</b> Bilo je, zapravo. Bilo je, doista. I doista, svaki put je postao simbol našeg prkosa. Na primjer, htjeli smo zaštititi naše šume koje su vlastodršci privatizirali. Na primjer, sjećam se da smo imali veliku svađu oko šume zvane Karura, koja je blizu - to je zapravo unutar Nairobija, i zapravo je u biti zemlja Nairobija, ekvivalent Central Parku u New Yorku. Htjeli su tu šumu iskrčiti i podići stambene kuće. A ja sam rekao: "Jesi li poludio? Treba ti ova šuma." A oni su rekli: "Ne treba nam šuma, trebaju nam kuće." A sad ti meni reci.</p><p> Pa bismo uzeli drveće i marširali s našim sadnicama prema šumi i rekli da marširamo da idemo i sadimo drveće. Sada, obično nikoga ne bi trebala zabrinjavati gomila žena koje pokušavaju posaditi stablo, ali budući da marširamo prema ovoj šumi, u biti smo rekli da nećete posjeći ovu šumu. U ovoj šumi nećete graditi stambene kuće, jer ova šuma treba gradu.</p><p> <b>Gđa Tippett:</b> I jeste li dobili tu bitku?</p><p> <b>Gospođa Maathai:</b> Nakon mnogo godina pobijedili smo, što je sjajno. A ono malo šume još je tu, hvala Bogu.</p><p> [ <em>glazba: “Brrrlak!” od Zap Mama</em> ]</p><p> <b>Gđa Tippett:</b> Počeli smo pričati o odrastanju, a unutar vaše kulture stabla su bila sveta mjesta, ili su stvarala sveta mjesta. Imali ste katolički odgoj, a zatim ste čitali proroka Hošeu kada ste vodili neke od svojih najmračnijih bitaka.</p><p> Želim te pitati o tvojoj slici Boga. Što mislite o tome - to je teško - obično ne postavljam ljudima takva izravna pitanja, ali stvarno bih bio znatiželjan vaš odgovor na to. Što znači vaš rad s drvećem, sav posao koji ste obavili, bitke koje ste vodili, i, u vašoj novoj svijesti o važnosti demokratskih prostora, kako se sve to ulijeva u vaše razumijevanje ovih velikih vjerskih pitanja?</p><p> <b>Gospođa Maathai:</b> Kad sam bila u katoličkoj školi u Nyeriju, gdje sam završila svoje osnovno obrazovanje, zapravo su me podučavale sestre Consolata Reda, Reda Consolata, koje inače dolaze iz Milana. Inače, njihov je utemeljitelj nedavno proglašen blaženim, tako da su na dobrom putu. U to vrijeme moram reći da je religija bila krajnje površna u načinu na koji nam je Bog predstavljen, jer Bog nam je predstavljen na način na koji se pojavljuje u Sikstinskoj kapeli Michelangela. Tako da je u to vrijeme bilo, rekao bih, vrlo površno predstavljanje Boga, gotovo kao ljudska osoba. I s umom mlade osobe, gotovo ste se osjećali kao, da, Bog je negdje u Rimu ili negdje na nebu, u oblacima. I onda, naravno, sjećate se, moje vlastito porijeklo. Već sam bio udaljen iz vlastitog podrijetla, jer su moji roditelji već prešli na kršćanstvo.</p><p> <b>Gđa Tippett:</b> Iz Kikuyu kulture.</p><p> <b>Gospođa Maathai:</b> Da. Ali uvijek je postojao taj utjecaj, na primjer, činjenice da su vjerovali da Bog živi na Mount Kenya, i imali su veliko poštovanje prema Mount Kenya. I tako sam tijekom svog ekološkog djelovanja često posjećivao ta dva koncepta načina na koji su mi moji preci predstavljali Boga i kako su mi misionari predstavljali Boga.</p><p> <b>Gđa Tippett:</b> Dakle, Sikstinska kapela ili planina Kenya.</p><p> <b>Gospođa Maathai:</b> Da. Sada, gdje je Bog? I kažem si, naravno, sada smo u potpuno novom dobu kada učimo pronaći Boga ne na nekom mjestu, već u sebi, jedni u drugima, u prirodi. Na mnogo načina to je kontradikcija jer vas crkva uči da je Bog sveprisutan. E sad, ako je sveprisutan, on je u Rimu, ali može istovremeno biti i u Keniji, ako je sveprisutan.</p><p> Tako sam za sebe doživio tu transformaciju onoga tko je Bog. Još uvijek čvrsto vjerujem da postoji ta moć. Njegov oblik, njegova veličina, njegova boja, nemam pojma. Ali na vas utječe ono što čujete, što vidite. Ali ja svejedno - kad pogledam planinu Kenya, tako je veličanstvena, tako je nadmoćna. Toliko je važno za održavanje života u mom području da ponekad kažem, da, Bog je na ovoj planini.</p><p> <b>Gđa Tippett:</b> Puno vam hvala, Wangari Maathai.</p><p> <b>Gđa Maathai:</b> Srdačno dobrodošli.</p><p> [ <em>glazba: “Elyne Road” Toumani Diabate</em> ]</p><p> <b>Gospođa Tippett:</b> Kad smo završili ovaj razgovor, Wangari Maathai otpjevala mi je pjesmu iz Pokreta zelenog pojasa.</p><p> <b>Gospođa Maathai:</b> Ova vrsta pjesme bila bi vrlo prikladna, jer kad se krećemo, uvijek želimo da bude mirno. Tako je pjevanje vjerskih pjesama bilo vrlo uobičajena stvar. Kaže da nema Boga kao što je on. Nema ljubavi poput njegove. I nema snage kao što je njegova.</p><p> [ <em>Wangari Maathai pjeva na svahiliju</em> ]</p><p> <b>Gđa Tippett:</b> Wangari Maathai osnovala je globalni Pokret za zeleni pojas, koji je danas pridonio sadnji preko 52 milijuna stabala. Dobitnica je Nobelove nagrade za mir 2004. Umrla je od raka 25. rujna 2011. u dobi od 71 godine. Njezine knjige uključuju memoare <em>Unbowed</em> i <em>Replenishing the Earth: Spiritual Values for Healing Ourself and the World</em> . Ona je također jedna od 100 herojskih žena predstavljenih u knjizi <em>Priče za laku noć za buntovnice.</em></p><p> [ <em>glazba: “Still Young” by Evenings</em> ]</p><p> <b>Osoblje:</b> Na Biti su Chris Heagle, Lily Percy, Maia Tarrell, Marie Sambilay, Erinn Farrell, Laurén Dørdal, Tony Liu, Bethany Iverson, Erin Colasacco, Kristin Lin, Profit Idowu, Casper ter Kuile, Angie Thurston, Sue Phillips, Eddie Gonzalez, Lilian Vo, Lucas Johnson, Damon Lee, Suzette Burley, Katie Gordon, Zack Rose i Serri Graslie.</p><p> <b>Gđa. Tippett:</b> Projekt On Being nalazi se na Zemlji Dakote. Našu divnu tematsku glazbu osigurava i sklada Zoë Keating. I zadnji glas koji čujete kako pjeva na kraju naše emisije je Cameron Kinghorn.</p><p> <em>On Being</em> nastao je u American Public Media. Naši partneri za financiranje uključuju:</p><p> Zaklada John Templeton, koja koristi moć znanosti za istraživanje najdubljih i najzbunjujućih pitanja s kojima se čovječanstvo suočava. Saznajte više o vrhunskim istraživanjima znanosti o velikodušnosti, zahvalnosti i svrsi na <a href="http://templeton.org/discoveries">templeton.org/discoveries</a> .</p><p> Zaklada obitelji George, kao potpora Projektu građanskih razgovora.</p><p> Fetzer institut, pomaže u izgradnji duhovnih temelja za svijet pun ljubavi. Pronađite ih na <a href="http://fetzer.org/">fetzer.org</a> .</p><p> Zaklada Kalliopeia, koja radi na stvaranju budućnosti u kojoj univerzalne duhovne vrijednosti čine temelj brige za naš zajednički dom.</p><p> Humanity United, unapređivanje ljudskog dostojanstva kod kuće i diljem svijeta. Saznajte više na <a href="http://humanityunited.org/">humanityunited.org</a> , dijelu Omidyar grupe.</p><p> Zaklada obitelji George, kao potpora Projektu građanskih razgovora.</p><p> Zaklada Henry Luce, kao potpora Public Theology Reimagined.</p><p> Zaklada Osprey — katalizator za osnažene, zdrave i ispunjene živote.</p><p> I Lilly Endowment, privatna obiteljska zaklada sa sjedištem u Indianapolisu posvećena interesima svojih osnivača u vjeri, razvoju zajednice i obrazovanju.</p><p></p> </div> </div>    <div class="inline-share-icons border-0 mt-0 pt-0"> <div class="d-flex align-items-center"> <span class="me-3 fw-semibold">Share this story:</span> <div> <a href="http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F2307%2Fwangari-maathai-marching-with-trees-on-being%2F" target="_blank" class="share-icon" aria-label="Share on Facebook"> <i class="fab fa-facebook-f"></i> </a> <a 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