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<div class="story-meta-left"> <div class="story-logo"> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org"> <img alt="DailyGood" src="https://www.karunanews.org/pics/90x90.jpg"> </a> </div> <div class="story-meta-info"> <div class="story-author">By <a href="/author?name=On%20Being">On Being</a></div> <div class="story-details"> <span class="story-date">Jul 15, 2018</span> <span class="story-read-time">1 min read</span> </div> <div class="story-source">Source: <a href="https://onbeing.org/programs/luis-alberto-urrea-what-borders-are-really-about-and-what-we-do-with-them-jul2018/" target="_blank">onbeing.org</a></div> </div> </div>  <div class="story-meta-right">  <div class="utility-buttons"> <div class="dropdown"> <button class="utility-btn translate-btn dropdown-toggle py-1" type="button" id="translationDropdown" data-bs-toggle="dropdown" aria-expanded="false"> <i class="fa fa-language me-2" aria-hidden="true"></i>Chinese (PRC) </button> <ul class="dropdown-menu dropdown-menu-end 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target="_blank" class="share-icon d-none d-sm-inline-flex" aria-label="Share on WhatsApp"> <i class="fab fa-whatsapp"></i> </a> </div> </div> </div>  <div class="story-content" id="dg_story"> <div class="dark-link perm_post"> 除了边境巡逻队那帮混蛋——我真想把他们都烧了。因为我当时就觉得他们是坏人。而且他们也知道。在我进门之前他们就知道，还故意刁难我。他们热情地对我进行仪式性的欺凌。我当时完全懵懂无知；现在我才明白，a) 他们觉得这很有趣，b) 他们想看看我是什么样的人。</p><p>韦尔顿站的督察肯尼·史密斯，一个和蔼可亲的人，边境巡逻队三十年的老兵，就在他们几乎把我生吞活剥、撕扯得我筋骨都快断掉的时候，他走了出来，问道：“怎么回事？”他们说：“这个白痴在写一本关于……”他只是看着我，那一幕我称之为恩典。我不知道还能怎么形容。那一刻，他的目光聚焦在我身上，说道：“我派出了救援队。我派出了那支强大的救援队。”</p><p>就在那一刻，我浑然不觉，人生发生了改变。他收留了我，开始训练我。他带我出去，向我展示如何追踪人，如何判断一个人是在清晨几点经过。这简直不可思议。我意识到，这家伙简直是泥土方面的博士，我在书中这样写道，因为他能像我们在文学课上读诗一样解读泥土；然后他说的那些话，让我大开眼界。</p><p>那一刻到来了——对我来说，那是一个转折点，就是和他一起站在魔鬼公路上。那里什么也没有。没有围栏，没有铁丝网。放眼望去，只有一片沙漠。路边立着一块牌子，上面有几个弹孔，写着：“如果你来美国，我们会非常沮丧。” 仅此而已。</p><p> [<em>笑声</em>]</p><p>我当时就站在他旁边，他对我说——请注意，我当时仍然觉得他们是邪恶的——他说：“我知道你怎么看我。”我记得我看了看他，因为他腰间别着一把.40口径的格洛克手枪，我心想，我的天哪。然后他说：“你觉得我是个穿着军靴的暴徒。”我这下彻底懵了。我本来没打算说“是的，我的确这么认为”，我只是站在那里。然后他说：“我就是你那个穿着闪亮盔甲的暴徒。”接着他就开始讲述他的人生经历。</p><p>他跟我讲了很多我一百年都想象不到的惊人事：比如特工们如何驻守——他们住在离任何一个站点70英里、50英里远的地方，因为要花那么长时间才能真正投入到工作中，才能把醒来时的人变成现在必须出动的人。他说：“你还得开车70英里回家，因为你得回家抱抱你的孩子。” 他还跟我讲过一段——他是个白人牛仔——他说：“我爸爸是牧场主，我也是牧场主。你知道我整天干什么吗？我就是追着牧场主跑。” 他说：“我知道他们都是我自己人。” 他说：“我的工作是拯救那些即将惨死的无辜平民。我的工作也是逮捕这些平民。”</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士：</b>没错，就是你不知道的那个等式的两部分。</p><p><b>乌雷亚先生：</b>是同一个人。</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士：</b>您曾经说过，在各种指责和假设交织在一起的漩涡中，有人批评美国纳税人为慰安所和昂贵的照明塔买单。然后您又说：“错了。事实上，这些塔楼都是那些心软的自由派人士，也就是边境巡逻队员们自掏腰包建造、架设、维护和支付的。”</p><p><b>乌雷亚先生：</b>好吧，他们是警察。所以他们并不傻，他们很狡猾。他们设计了救生塔，塔身装有闪亮的镜子，几英里外都能看到。这些塔是太阳能供电的，上面有呼叫按钮，还有一个标牌，上面写着：“你会死的。你到不了高速公路。如果你遇到危险，请按下这个按钮。我们会在半小时内赶到救你。” 作为警察，他们把这些塔建在了人流量最大的地方。没错，这让他们抓到了更多人，但没错，这让他们有机会救人。这些塔是边境巡逻队的特工在车库里设计建造的；他们亲自去安装的，而且是他们自己掏钱买的。这些都是小事。</p><p>当他跟我讲这些的时候——我所有的警觉都响了起来——我身上所有奇卡诺人、边境居民、墨西哥人、自由派、可能不喜欢边境巡逻队的特质都涌上心头。就像《迷失太空》里的机器人一样——“危险，威尔·罗宾逊。可能不喜欢边境巡逻队。” 我控制不住自己。他跟我讲了关于当父亲、当丈夫的事，还有他见过的死人，等等等等。我转过身对他说：“肯尼——肯尼，我爱你，兄弟。” 他却——他根本没看我。他只是望着沙漠，说：“我也挺喜欢你的，伙计。”</p><p> [<em>笑声</em>]</p><p>你怎么能不写一本书呢？</p><p> [<em>音乐：Calexico 的《Flores y Tamales》</em> ]</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士：</b>我是克丽斯塔·蒂佩特，这里是<em>《论存在》</em> 。今天我们邀请到的是讲故事大师、作家路易斯·阿尔贝托·乌雷亚。</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士：</b>我想这正是你想表达的意思。你说过，你曾有过这样的经历：人们一方面想要加强彼此间的隔阂，另一方面我们似乎又想打破这些隔阂，这让我们有点抓狂。你说：“我们想彼此交流。我们想念彼此。”</p><p><b>乌雷亚先生：</b>你不觉得吗？</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士：</b>我的确这么认为，但像你这样的人以这种方式写下来，我读了之后，我知道这是真的。</p><p><b>乌雷亚先生：</b>我确实认为这是真的，而且我认为如果我们愿意倾听，双方都能从中汲取很多智慧。我承认，大多数时候，我都会想，“你在开玩笑吗？”我每天晚上看MSNBC的时候都会想，“你在开玩笑吗？”</p><p> [<em>笑声</em>]</p><p>但我仍然愿意倾听。[<em>笑</em>]</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士：</b>好的，我们来问几个问题。</p><p><b>观众1：</b>我们如何用同情和爱来取代恐惧和仇恨？</p><p><b>乌雷亚先生：</b>哦。[<em>笑声</em>] 我只是觉得，作为见证人，放下指责和那些荒谬的言辞，真的很难。再说一遍，危险在于谈论人本身。这很危险。你的意思是，‘那个宗教’里有很多很棒的人？你的意思是，‘那种性取向’里有很多我会爱的人？‘那种投票’呢？你猜怎么着？每个人都有梦想。每个人都有爱的人。每个人都有痛苦。</p><p>对我来说，最让我难以忘怀的事情之一，就是走进蒂华纳的垃圾场，在那里待了好几年，把那里当成了我的世界。想想那真是恐惧和厌恶交织的滋味。我至今还记得，垃圾场里有个女人拥抱我。当时有一群传教士，她紧紧地抱着我，嘴里不停地念叨着：“哦，路易斯，路易斯，路易斯。”然后她说：“你知道我为什么喜欢路易斯吗？”他们问：“为什么？”她说：“他不怕我们。”我说：“啊，是啊。”她又说：“他不在乎我身上有没有虱子。”我当时就懵了：“哇，什么？”</p><p> [<em>笑声</em>]</p><p>所以我觉得你得做好用生命——不仅仅是金钱，而是生命——来兑现你的承诺。我跟上帝做了个小小的约定。我说：“如果我不长虱子，我就做这件事，好吗？”</p><p> [<em>笑声</em>]</p><p><b>观众2：</b>这是两个问题。你可以回答其中一个，也可以两个都回答。面对非拉丁裔观众，最难的是什么？当你在遥远的北方地区展示你的作品时，与在洛杉矶、圣安东尼奥甚至芝加哥展示作品相比，你必须做哪些不同的事情？</p><p><b>乌雷亚先生：</b>一点也不。这真是太棒了。当然，在圣安东尼奥我们说西班牙语的人更多一些。但除此之外，没有别的。这些人都是爱读书的人。人们天生爱读书；他们渴望了解事物，否则他们就不会读书了。所以，我觉得——我们西班牙语里有句短语叫“en familia”（家人）。无论我走到哪里，都感觉像在自己家一样，因为人们都很友善。</p><p> [<em>掌声</em>]</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士：</b>所以，如果“我们”不是一个大熔炉，那么我们正在朝着什么方向发展？你希望、梦想着我们最终会进化成什么样子？</p><p><b>乌雷亚先生：</b>哦，天哪——<em>星际迷航</em>。</p><p> [<em>掌声</em>]</p><p>或许我们会拥有一个星球联邦式的文化。在黑暗中遇到陌生人，对方只是挥手打招呼而不是打你，这有什么错呢？这有什么错呢？欣赏他人的文化、音乐、美食，甚至倾听他们的宗教信仰，然后说“这很有意思”，在我看来，这既简单又令人愉悦。</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士：</b>我喜欢这样。这样我们就能逐渐变得更加享受彼此相处的时光。</p><p><b>乌雷亚先生：</b>那岂不是很好吗？我觉得肯定很好——除了体育方面，对吧？</p><p> [<em>笑声</em>]</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士：</b>即使在体育运动中，我们仍然会互相憎恨。</p><p><b>乌雷亚先生：</b>是的，哦，当然。</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士：</b>这是一本很美的诗集。</p><p><b>乌雷亚先生：</b>谢谢。</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士：</b> <em>《蒂华纳亡灵书》</em> 。实际上，这里面的第一首诗叫做《向心不在焉的神寻求恩典的人》。它太长了，读不完。但我对它的结尾非常感兴趣。我甚至在想，您能不能只读这一页？我想知道所有这些“我爱你”的含义。您能读一下，然后跟我谈谈它的含义吗？那里发生了什么？</p><p><b>乌雷亚先生：</b>嗯，第一首诗的第一句是“你们向一位心不在焉的神寻求恩典”，最后一首诗的最后一句是“你们不会被遗忘”。因此，在我看来，这是世界上最长的句子。它完全是关于神——或者说是关于我们内心的渴望。这首诗的灵感来源于反移民言论，它描绘了清晨人们拼命赶去上班的情景。这与我自己的清晨经历遥相呼应，我曾无数次乘坐公交车去上班，从事着许多糟糕的工作。于是，你站在了市中心的广场上。</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士：</b>你可以早点开始，或者从任何你想开始的地方开始。</p><p><b>乌雷亚先生：</b>我会找个地方站着，这样也说得通。而且你现在也和大家站在一起。</p><p>你百无聊赖地默默走着，数着自己犯下的种种罪孽，/ 走到广场，/ 站在拥挤的人群中——孩子们正前往技校，/ 坐轮椅的男人，推着购物车的女人，/ 脸颊上挂着蓝色泪痕、点头的妓女，乡亲们/ 和醉汉们，哥斯达黎加人，波多黎各人，奇卡诺人，阿帕奇人，/ 泰诺人，哈瓦那人，里约人，玛雅人，/ 纹身的乔洛武士，神秘莫测地向后靠着，/ 静静地注视着/ 你。你想，你/ 真的想，你内心充满渴望，你/ 内心燃烧着渴望，你/ 无言以对，/ 想要用双手捧住他们的脸颊，/ 想要将他们的脸捧在手心，/ 想要说出来——说出来，你没有什么可失去的/ ——就说出来：说// 我爱你。我爱你。/ 我爱你。我爱你。/ 我爱你。我爱你你。”</p><p> [<em>掌声</em>]</p><p>部分原因是，我觉得很难经常对人说“我爱你”，尤其是在观众面前。有趣的是，你选择用这个开场白，因为芭蕾舞剧就是这么开始的。他们让我对所有这些陌生人说这句话。而且，如果我特别投入，我会一边说这句话一边向观众席的每个角落示意，因为我想让它在某种程度上像是一种异教徒的祝福。</p><p> [<em>笑声</em>]</p><p>是啊，你想说出口。我们都想说出口。但我们说不出口。我接触过很多孩子，他们无法讲述自己的故事，他们觉得没有人爱他们。他们觉得没人关心他们。他们觉得每个人都恨他们。他们害怕被驱逐出境，或者他们的母亲会消失。所以，一部分原因是在和那些需要更多表达爱意的人交谈。一部分原因是在和自己对话，告诉自己：“别做懦夫。告诉别人你爱他们。”还有一部分原因是，我经常和600个孩子说话，而不是和你们这些成年人，我告诉他们：“我爱你们。我爱你们所有人。”因为总得有人这么做。总得有人这么做——如果我能主持一个广播节目，我会每天晚上给他们讲个故事，告诉他们我爱他们。</p><p> [<em>掌声</em>]</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士：</b>这真是太美好了。在我们结束之前，我想请您朗读一下<em>《无人之子》</em>中的几行文字，这本书算是回忆录吧；笔记。</p><p><b>乌雷亚先生：</b>好的。“言语是我们唯一能真正分享的东西。我说‘我们’，指的是我们每个人，你们所有人，每一位边境巡逻队员，每一位透过围栏瑟瑟发抖地向外张望的墨西哥人。每一位三K党成员，每一位全国有色人种协进会（NAACP）的工作人员。每一位困惑的母亲，每一位失望的父亲。因为我不是任何人的儿子，但我却是大家的兄弟。所以，到我身边来，送我回家。”</p><p> [<em>掌声</em>]</p><p> [<em>音乐：《树叶一片片凋零》，演唱者：Lullatone</em> ]</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士：</b>路易斯·阿尔贝托·乌雷亚是伊利诺伊大学芝加哥分校的英语教授。他的著作颇丰，包括： <em>《走进美丽的北方》</em> 、 <em>《魔鬼之路》</em> 、 <em>《蜂鸟的女儿》</em>和<em>《破碎天使之家</em>》。</p><p><b>员工：</b> <em>On Being 的成员</em>包括 Chris Heagle、Lily Percy、Mariah Helgeson、Maia Tarrell、Marie Sambilay、Erinn Farrell、Laurén Dørdal、Tony Liu、Bethany Iverson、Erin Colasacco、Kristin Lin、Profit Idowu、Casper ter Kuile、Angie Thurston、Sue Phillips、Eddie Gonzalez、Lilian Vo、Damon Lee 和 Jeffrey Bissoy。</p><p><b>蒂佩特女士：</b>本周我要特别感谢圣克罗伊艺术拓展中心、斯蒂尔沃特公共图书馆、斯蒂尔沃特三一路德教会以及美国国家艺术基金会的“全民阅读”项目。尤其要感谢希瑟·拉特利奇、斯蒂芬妮·阿特金斯、特蕾西·波斯特、特拉维斯·诺达尔和菲尔·卡迪德洛。</p><p> [<em>音乐：GoGo Penguin 的《Quiet Mind》</em> ]</p><p>我们优美的主题曲由佐伊·基廷创作并演唱。每集片尾字幕中最后出现的歌声则来自嘻哈歌手莉佐。</p><p> <em>《On Being》</em>由美国公共媒体制作。我们的资助伙伴包括：</p><p>乔治家族基金会支持公民对话项目。</p><p>费策尔研究所致力于为充满爱的世界奠定精神基础。访问 fetzer.org 了解更多信息。</p><p> Kalliopeia 基金会致力于创造一个以普世精神价值观为基础，关爱我们共同家园的未来。</p><p> Humanity United 致力于在国内和世界各地提升人类尊严。了解更多信息，请访问 humanityunited.org，该组织隶属于奥米迪亚集团。</p><p>亨利·卢斯基金会，支持“重新构想公共神学”。</p><p>鱼鹰基金会，致力于促进人们拥有充满力量、健康和充实的生活。</p><p>还有礼来基金会，这是一个总部位于印第安纳波利斯的私人家族基金会，致力于其创始人对宗教、社区发展和教育的兴趣。</p> </div> 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required></textarea> <div class="row mt-3"> <div class="col-sm-6"> <div class="input-group mb-3"> <span class="input-group-text"><i class="far fa-user"></i></span> <input type="text" name="comment_name" id="comment_name" value="" class="form-control" placeholder="Your name" required> </div> </div> <div class="col-sm-6"> <div class="input-group mb-3"> <span class="input-group-text"><i class="far fa-envelope"></i></span> <input type="email" name="comment_email" id="comment_email" value="" class="form-control" placeholder="Your email (not published)" required> </div> </div> </div> <div class="d-flex justify-content-between align-items-center mt-3"> <div class="form-check"> <input class="form-check-input" type="checkbox" id="subscribe" name="subscribe" value="1"> <label class="form-check-label" for="subscribe"> Notify me of follow-up comments </label> </div> <div>  <button type="submit" class="btn btn-info px-4 g-recaptcha" data-sitekey="6Ld9FbYpAAAAAGIucyXK_lxDVb-6tDGgPuXN0OPm" 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href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/2065/-p-p-iframe-frameborder-no-height-300-scrolling-no-src-https-w-soundcloud-com-player-url-https-3a-api-soundcloud-com-tracks-470729514-and-color-23ff5500-and-auto-play-false-and-hide-related-false-and-show-comments-true-and-show-user-true-and-am-on-being/?t=showComment&cid=7654" class="ms-auto link-icon text-muted"><i class='fa fa-link'></i></a> </div> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Thank you I really needed this reminder today about the love for every human being <3</p> </div> <div class="comment-actions"> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/2065/-p-p-iframe-frameborder-no-height-300-scrolling-no-src-https-w-soundcloud-com-player-url-https-3a-api-soundcloud-com-tracks-470729514-and-color-23ff5500-and-auto-play-false-and-hide-related-false-and-show-comments-true-and-show-user-true-and-am-on-being/?t=showComment&cid=7654#addcomment" class="reply-link" data-cmt-id="7654" data-cmt-author="Kristin Pedemonti"><i class="bi bi-reply"></i> Reply</a> <span class="btn-light post_btn small"></span> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="comment-item" id="cmt_7647"> <div class="comment-container"> <div class="comment-avatar"> <img src="https://pod.servicespace.org/pics/mem/blank.jpg" alt="User avatar"> </div> <div class="comment-content-wrapper"> <div class="comment-meta"> <span class="comment-author">Patrick Watters</span> <span class="comment-date">Jul 15, 2018</span> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/2065/-p-p-iframe-frameborder-no-height-300-scrolling-no-src-https-w-soundcloud-com-player-url-https-3a-api-soundcloud-com-tracks-470729514-and-color-23ff5500-and-auto-play-false-and-hide-related-false-and-show-comments-true-and-show-user-true-and-am-on-being/?t=showComment&cid=7647" class="ms-auto link-icon text-muted"><i class='fa fa-link'></i></a> </div> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Oh my Beloved, so much more good going in than we can see! And in it, in Divine LOVE (God by any other name) we are far richer than we know! But here it is, #THEANSWER, we CAN know and see if we will surrender to LOVE. }:- ❤️ anonemoose monk</p> </div> <div class="comment-actions"> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/2065/-p-p-iframe-frameborder-no-height-300-scrolling-no-src-https-w-soundcloud-com-player-url-https-3a-api-soundcloud-com-tracks-470729514-and-color-23ff5500-and-auto-play-false-and-hide-related-false-and-show-comments-true-and-show-user-true-and-am-on-being/?t=showComment&cid=7647#addcomment" class="reply-link" data-cmt-id="7647" data-cmt-author="Patrick Watters"><i class="bi bi-reply"></i> Reply</a> <span class="btn-light post_btn small"></span> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <script> $(document).ready(function() { // Toggle between short and full comments $('.see_full_cmt').on('click', function(e) { e.preventDefault(); var cid = $(this).attr('cid'); $('.short_cmt' + cid).hide(); $('.long_cmt' + cid).show(); }); $('.see_short_cmt').on('click', function(e) { e.preventDefault(); var cid = $(this).attr('cid'); $('.long_cmt' + cid).hide(); $('.short_cmt' + cid).show(); }); }); </script> </div>   </div> </div> </div> </div> </section> <script src="js/story.js?9bgu"></script>  <footer class="footer"> <div class="container"> <div class="row"> <div class="col-md-5 mb-4 mb-md-0"> <h5 class="footer-title">About DailyGood</h5> <p class="footer-about-text"> For over 29 years, DailyGood has been a volunteer-led movement to share uplifting stories that connect hearts and inspire action — all without ads, agendas, or asks. 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