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<div class="story-meta-left"> <div class="story-logo"> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org"> <img alt="DailyGood" src="https://www.karunanews.org/pics/90x90.jpg"> </a> </div> <div class="story-meta-info"> <div class="story-author">By <a href="/author?name=On%20Being">On Being</a></div> <div class="story-details"> <span class="story-date">Feb 5, 2019</span> <span class="story-read-time">1 min read</span> </div> <div class="story-source">Source: <a href="https://onbeing.org/programs/pico-iyer-the-urgency-of-slowing-down-nov2018/" target="_blank">onbeing.org</a></div> </div> </div>  <div class="story-meta-right">  <div class="utility-buttons"> <div class="dropdown"> <button class="utility-btn translate-btn dropdown-toggle py-1" type="button" id="translationDropdown" data-bs-toggle="dropdown" aria-expanded="false"> <i class="fa fa-language me-2" aria-hidden="true"></i>Chinese (PRC) </button> <ul class="dropdown-menu dropdown-menu-end translation-dropdown" 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target="_blank" class="share-icon d-none d-sm-inline-flex" aria-label="Share on WhatsApp"> <i class="fab fa-whatsapp"></i> </a> </div> </div> </div>  <div class="story-content" id="dg_story"> <div class="dark-link perm_post"> 你在纽约的生活很精彩，我记得你离开纽约去京都的寺庙住一年，但你最终并没有待满一年。是这样吗？</p><p>艾耶先生：完全正确。[<em>笑</em>] 我待了一周，发现京都的寺庙和我之前想象的曼哈顿中城的寺庙截然不同。后来我搬到了京都后街的一间单间里，连厕所、电话和床都没有。</p><p>蒂佩特女士：好吧，那你没事了。[<em>笑</em>] 告诉我你对时间有什么新的认识。也许你现在大部分时间都生活在日本，所以你的想法依然适用。我对此很感兴趣，因为我觉得时间本身就是一个非常迷人的概念，它在科学和神秘主义中都引起了强烈的共鸣。</p><p>艾耶先生：是的，我想我们都体会过这种感觉。我们拥有越来越多的省时设备，但感觉时间却越来越少。我小时候，奢侈的感觉与宽敞的空间有关，比如拥有一栋大房子或一辆豪车。现在，我认为奢侈与拥有充裕的时间有关。如今，终极奢侈或许就是日历上的一片空白。有趣的是，我认为，这正是我们许多人所渴望的。</p><p>在京都待了一年后，我从纽约搬到了日本乡村。我基本上是搬进了一间两居室的公寓，现在仍然和妻子以及之前的两个孩子住在这里。我们没有车，没有自行车，也没有我能看懂的电视。生活很简单，但却感觉很惬意。其中一个原因是，当我醒来时，感觉一整天都像一片巨大的草地一样在我眼前展开，这在快节奏的纽约城里是从来没有过的感觉。我可以坐在书桌前工作五个小时，然后出去散步，再花一个小时读书。在阅读的过程中，我能感觉到自己越来越投入，越来越专注，越来越细腻。这就像一场美妙的对话。</p><p>然后我还有时间在附近散散步，处理一下邮件，应付一下老板，再去打打乒乓球，晚上和妻子一起度过。感觉一天仿佛有千小时，而这正是我在奔波于不同地方时——比如今天在洛杉矶——所无法体验或感受到的。我想这是一种权衡。我放弃了经济保障，也放弃了大城市的喧嚣。但我认为为了拥有自由和时间，这一切都是值得的。在日本，我最大的享受就是，一到那里，我就摘下手表，感觉再也不需要戴了。我很快就能通过日出时分阳光斜照在墙上的角度和日落时分的光线来判断时间——我想，这才是回归更本质的人类生活。</p><p>蒂佩特女士：这关乎你创造的生活，而不是日本文化中的某些东西，对吧？</p><p>艾耶先生：的确如此，当然，我离开纽约的时候，本来可以去任何地方。作为一名作家，我很幸运；我的工作可以在任何地方进行。我想我去日本的原因之一——这和你刚才问到的“高级怀疑论研究所”有关——是我的教育教会了我如何说，但我认为它并没有教会我如何倾听。我的学校教会了我如何在社会上奋力拼搏，但却从未教会我如何放下自我。到了日本之后，我发现自己基本上是个文盲——直到今天，我仍然不会读写日语——这对我来说反而是一种收获。我完全受制于周围的一切。我无法抱有掌控一切的幻想。日本是一个让我受益匪浅的地方，而且我至今仍在学习。</p><p>蒂佩特女士：您曾说过，我们正在重新发现——我真的很喜欢这个说法——“放慢脚步的紧迫性”。这太好了。</p><p>艾耶先生：谢谢。嗯，我想我们都感到头晕目眩。我们坐上了一辆加速行驶的过山车，而我们从未真正想过要坐上这辆车，现在却不知道该如何下来。我最强烈的预感是，我们的电子设备不会消失，我们也不希望它们消失。它们让我们的生活更加精彩、健康、长久。但可以肯定的是，它们只会加速发展，数量激增。我们真的需要采取紧急措施，才能保持身心平衡。我有时觉得，旅行让我兴奋和刺激，而静谧才是我保持理智的方式。帕斯卡在17世纪曾精辟地指出，我们的问题在于分心。但我们却试图让自己远离分心，结果反而在这个恶性循环中越陷越深。</p><p>所以，治疗分心的唯一方法就是集中注意力。我去我的寺院，也去日本，因为那里是专注的圣地。在那里，人们都非常专注，像我这样的人可以尝试学习专注。</p><p>蒂佩特女士：读着您的文字，读着您精心打造的人生，我不禁思考，您选择了一种极简的生活方式——我想您甚至用过“奢华”这个词。您谈到与莱昂纳德·科恩的交往，他也用了“奢华”这个词——这与29岁时的您形成了鲜明的对比，那时您正过着美国梦般的生活。我不禁思考，您所选择和创造的一切，有多少也源于随着年龄增长而来的智慧？随着岁月的流逝，静谧变得更加自然，也更加令人愉悦，我认为这是一种内在的本能。我不确定每个人都能做到这一点。事实上，我知道并非每个人都能做到。</p><p>我最近读到一项新的研究，说我们年轻时天生就渴望从新鲜事物中获得刺激和满足感，而随着年龄增长，我们反而更自然地从平凡的事物、习惯和日常生活的方方面面中找到乐趣和满足感。这让我开始思考，为什么智慧会随着年龄增长而增长，为什么长者会成为长者——因为他们自然而然地就能领悟到精神传统中最深刻的智慧。</p><p>艾耶先生：是的。我昨天刚跟人说，我发现自己——我大概只比你大几岁——从拜访老朋友那里获得的满足感，远胜于四处结交新朋友；重读那些我一直钟爱的书，每次阅读都能给我带来新的感悟，而不是一味地寻找最新的好书；重访那些与我有着三五十年情缘的地方。你无需再向任何人解释自己。你不再享受新鲜感带来的兴奋，而是进入了一种更深刻、更亲密的体验。你说得对，这种体验很快就会比单纯追求新鲜事物更有意义。当然，年纪越大，就越难接受新鲜事物，这或许就是为什么时间过得更快，岁月仿佛像老电影里的日历页一样飞逝的原因吧。</p><p>我觉得我从莱昂纳德·科恩身上学到的另一点是，我认识他的时候，他已经在洛杉矶背后寒冷黑暗的山区里过着五年僧侣般的生活。正如你提到的，他说，即使他已经享受过世间所有的享乐，静静地坐着照顾别人、擦地板，对他来说也是一种无比美妙的人生体验。但这个过程的第二部分，或许更为重要，是他重返人间。他七十多岁时进行了六年的世界巡演，并成为全球最受欢迎的音乐家之一。我认为他走红的原因在于，人们能感受到他某种程度上是从山里走出来的。换句话说，他把智慧、深度和无私带到了音乐会的舞台上，而这些品质在其他地方我们通常看不到。我想，即使人们无法用语言表达出来，他们也能感受到从他身上获得的那种寺院般的宁静和深刻，而不仅仅是某种商业目的或推销手段。</p><p> [<em>音乐：MONO 的《Cyclone》</em> ]</p><p>蒂佩特女士：我是克丽斯塔·蒂佩特，这里是<em>《论存在</em>》。今天，我们将与作家皮科·艾耶尔一起探讨“静止的艺术”。</p><p>蒂佩特女士：我们的访谈即将结束，但我还想问您一些关于神秘主义的问题。我想读一段您写过的话，它深深吸引了我：“对我而言，神秘主义超越了时间和环境。读一篇13世纪的禅宗论述，翻阅圣十字若望的著作，再听听莱昂纳德·科恩的最新专辑，你立刻就能感受到同样的境界。神秘主义几乎就是亘古不变的底蕴，是隐藏在世间万象变迁背后的真理。”</p><p>艾耶先生：我的天哪，我其实挺喜欢这个的。[<em>笑</em>] 我仍然相信这一点。</p><p>蒂佩特女士：[<em>笑</em>] 在全球化的21世纪世界里，神秘主义是否扮演着不同的角色、新的角色或扩展的角色？</p><p>艾耶先生：我认为在一个快节奏的世界里，的确如此。因为我们比以往任何时候都更需要扎根于超越时间、规模宏大、且不局限于CNN最新新闻报道的事物之中。了解两秒钟前格莱美颁奖典礼上发生了什么，或者更重要的，伊拉克发生了什么，固然很好。但如果我们没有一个更广阔、更广阔的视角来审视这一切，我们就无法真正理解它们。从这个意义上讲，这很有趣——当你读到我对神秘主义的描述时，它听起来和我对自己隐居生活的描述完全一样。我想我当时可能几乎把这两个词互换使用了。但如果神秘主义指的是我们超越自身、拥有更深邃智慧，或者至少能够聆听内心深处某种远超我们自身的声音的地方，那么我们比以往任何时候都更需要它。因为我设想，在19世纪，当显而易见的消遣远没有现在这么多的时候，或许这是一种浪漫的想法，但我认为人们能够更频繁地听到自己内心深处更美好的声音。</p><p>在当今喧嚣的时代，很难听到真话，我注意到越来越多的人谈论如何拨开迷雾。这正是我们真正需要做的。我想，神秘主义或许正是拨开当下嘈杂声，提醒我们什么是真实，并提醒我们如何回应真实，如何公正地对待它的一种方式。</p><p>或许这正契合了你问题的另一部分，那就是神秘主义之美在于它消融了一切区分，没有你我之分，没有东方西方之别，没有新旧之别。我们超越了二元对立，超越了思维的种种诡计，回到你关于知识分子的观点。我们身处一个不再置身事外、不再妄加评判和区分的空间。我们身处某种真理之中，这种真理甚至无需命名，但它却是所有伟大传统汇聚之处。因此，如果鲁米、十字若望、埃克哈特大师和伟大的禅宗大师道元禅师聚在一起交谈，他们或许会用各自传统的语言和框架进行阐述，但他们所谈论的却是他们各自内心深处都认同的现实。</p><p>蒂佩特女士：而且他们的任何话语都无法传达到足够远的地方，对吗？</p><p>艾耶先生：正是如此。神秘主义是所有语言和解释都无济于事的地方。</p><p>蒂佩特女士：我很少见您谈论上帝，我觉得您刚才说的非常精彩。当然，上帝是我们只能用语言来指涉的现实之一。我不知道，您对上帝有感觉吗？还是您刻意回避使用这个词？又或者只是我没有亲眼见过？</p><p>艾耶先生：你说得对。我确实会避免使用这种语言。我记得小时候，每当我看到大写字母，心里就会有一种莫名的抵触情绪。但奇怪的是，两周前，突然有人毫无预兆地问我：“上帝是什么？”我回答说：“现实。”</p><p>我认为这会产生很多影响。但通常来说，我会说我肯定会像你我之前讨论的那样使用“神圣”这个词。我认为我们每个人内心都蕴藏着某种永恒不变、浩瀚无垠、深不可测的东西。如果基督徒称之为上帝，穆斯林称之为真主，佛教徒称之为“实相”或其他什么，我都欣然接受。再说一遍，我认为名称并不那么重要，重要的是真理本身，我认为这才是我们绝不能忽视的根本真理。</p><p>你之前提到我寻求精神寄托的地方和人，我想那是因为我很小的时候就发现自己没有固定的宗教信仰。那些有宗教信仰的人，他们的行为举止都如此善良、无私、清明，让我觉得，这些人值得我学习。我从他们身上学到的是，他们聆听上帝的声音，更重要的是，他们有时顺服上帝，即使上帝要求他们去做不可能的事，他们也依然顺服。但他们始终明白，这就是他们信仰的所在。我无法用言语表达我对那些以上帝为生命中心的人的感激和敬佩之情。当然，像达赖喇嘛那样，他或许会说现实是他生命的中心，但这本质上是一样的。</p><p>蒂佩特女士：您的生活方式非常简朴，但您写的书却很受欢迎。近年来，您曾几次在<em>《纽约时报》</em>上发表文章，其中一篇是几年前写的，可能是在您创作关于静谧之书的时候写的。那篇文章的名字是《静谧的喜悦》吗？是吗？</p><p>艾耶先生：是的。</p><p>蒂佩特女士：您最后提到——您当时在您的修道院，也就是您所说的秘密住所，我记得是在加州。您谈到——您外出散步，和一位在MTV工作的人聊天，他带着年幼的孩子来这里，让他们体验宁静的乐趣。您最后有一句话让我印象深刻。您写道：“我意识到，未来的孩子或许比我们更能感知到什么是本质，而不是什么是新奇。” 我只是想把这句话读给您听。它非常优美。</p><p>艾耶先生：谢谢您如此高的评价。我之所以在那篇文章的结尾用了那句话，是因为文章开头我提到要去新加坡参加一个题为“面向未来儿童的营销”的会议。所以，这篇文章实际上是从世俗的层面转向神圣的层面，或者说是从世界的中心——在那里，“未来儿童”与“营销”并列出现——转向真正能够支持未来儿童的事物，而这远非市场所能涵盖，更接近于一种宁静的状态。事实上，我在<em>《纽约时报》</em>有一位很棒的编辑，她经常给我提出这些想法，几年前她还委托我写了那本关于TED演讲的书。我们素未谋面，她却突然问我：“你为什么不写一篇关于沉默的文章呢？”然后她又说：“你为什么不写一篇关于焦虑的文章呢？”以及“你为什么不写一篇关于苦难的文章呢？”我很高兴有机会探讨这些话题。正如你所说，我惊喜地发现<em>《纽约时报》</em>愿意在报纸上显著位置刊登这些内容，以此来纠正当时的局面。</p><p>蒂佩特女士：我想问您一个意义深远的问题。在您的人生历程中，您对我们精神传统背后以及这个普世的人类问题——“人之为人意味着什么”——的理解是如何演变的？</p><p>艾耶先生：我认为，作为人，真正的意义在于彼此联结。我生性比较孤僻，也经常谈到静谧和沉默，但我认为它们只是中转站，是能量补给站。有趣的是，如今我们去机场，到处都是电子设备的充电站，却很少有能让我们心灵充电的地方。</p><p>蒂佩特女士：没错。[<em>笑</em>] 突然之间就出现了这么多充电站。</p><p>艾耶先生：一切都来得那么突然。我们很快意识到，只有当我们为灵魂充电，才能更好地利用电子设备。我对数字时代的部分担忧在于，它的美好之处在于我们可以与世界各个角落的人们联系。但挑战在于，我们有时会与自己失去联系，尤其是与我们内心深处的自我。于是，我们更容易用那些无关紧要、转瞬即逝的东西来定义自己，比如外貌、财富或履历。我认为，如果一个人用这些标准来定义自己，他/她并不会因此变得更富有。所以，我认为，作为一个人，就应该努力找到自己身上最美好的部分——它超越了我们自身，比我们智慧得多——并将它分享给所有你关心的人。</p><p> [<em>音乐：Wes Swing 的《Dilate》</em> ]</p><p>蒂佩特女士：皮科·艾耶尔是十几本书的作者，包括<em>《开放之路：第十四世达赖喇嘛的环球之旅》</em>和<em>《静谧的艺术：无处可去的冒险</em>》。他目前正在创作两本将于2019年出版的新书： <em>《秋日之光》</em>和<em>《日本入门指南》</em> 。</p><p> [<em>音乐：吉他演奏的“Akiko”</em> ]</p><p>工作人员： <em>On Being 的成员</em>包括 Chris Heagle、Lily Percy、Mariah Helgeson、Maia Tarrell、Marie Sambilay、Erinn Farrell、Laurén Dørdal、Tony Liu、Bethany Iverson、Erin Colasacco、Kristin Lin、Profit Idowu、Casper ter Kuile、Angie Thurston、Sue Phillips、Eddie Gonzalez、Lilian Vo、Lucas Johnson、Damon Lee、Suzette Burley、Katie Gordon 和 Zack Rose。</p><p>蒂佩特女士：我们优美的主题曲由佐伊·基廷创作并演唱。每集片尾字幕中最后出现的歌声则来自嘻哈歌手莉佐。</p><p> <em>《On Being》</em>由美国公共媒体制作。我们的资助伙伴包括：</p><p>约翰·邓普顿基金会。支持学术研究和公民对话，探讨人类面临的最深刻、最令人困惑的问题：我们是谁？我们为何存在？我们将走向何方？欲了解更多信息，请访问<a href="https://templeton.org/">templeton.org</a> 。</p><p>费策尔研究所致力于为充满爱的世界奠定精神基础。访问<a href="http://fetzer.org/">fetzer.org</a>了解更多信息。</p><p> Kalliopeia 基金会致力于创造一个以普世精神价值观为基础，关爱我们共同家园的未来。</p><p> Humanity United 致力于在国内和世界各地提升人类尊严。了解更多信息，请访问 humanityunited.org，该组织隶属于奥米迪亚集团。</p><p>亨利·卢斯基金会支持“重新构想公共神学”。</p><p>鱼鹰基金会——致力于促进人们拥有充满力量、健康和充实的生活。</p><p>还有礼来基金会，这是一个总部位于印第安纳波利斯的私人家族基金会，致力于其创始人对宗教、社区发展和教育的兴趣。</p> </div> </div>    <div class="inline-share-icons border-0 mt-0 pt-0"> <div class="d-flex align-items-center"> <span class="me-3 fw-semibold">Share this story:</span> <div> <a href="http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailygood.org%2Fstory%2F2197%2Fthe-urgency-of-slowing-down-on-being%2F" target="_blank" class="share-icon" aria-label="Share on Facebook"> <i class="fab fa-facebook-f"></i> </a> <a 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href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/2197/-p-p-iframe-frameborder-no-height-394-scrolling-no-src-https-w-soundcloud-com-player-url-https-3a-api-soundcloud-com-playlists-653954910-and-color-23ff5500-and-auto-play-false-and-hide-related-false-and-show-comments-true-and-show-user-true-on-being/?t=showComment&cid=7978" class="ms-auto link-icon text-muted"><i class='fa fa-link'></i></a> </div> <div class="comment-content"> <p>We need to Be Mindful of the Impact of Travel on Our Planet ♡ It Contributes to climate change and the 6th mass extinction. All Worlds Are Within Us. And there is Always work to do right Here, right Now, where we Are. Starting with Creating a planet of True Equality and Unity. A planet where the children of All species are put First. A planet that has eliminated preventable child mortality, eliminated pollution and wasted resource, eliminated the -isms and generational trauma that plague us. We Need to See and Honor the Spiritual as the Seed of the physical. A Shift in Mindset. #ConsciousProCreation #OneBeing #OnePlanet #United</p> </div> <div class="comment-actions"> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/2197/-p-p-iframe-frameborder-no-height-394-scrolling-no-src-https-w-soundcloud-com-player-url-https-3a-api-soundcloud-com-playlists-653954910-and-color-23ff5500-and-auto-play-false-and-hide-related-false-and-show-comments-true-and-show-user-true-on-being/?t=showComment&cid=7978#addcomment" class="reply-link" data-cmt-id="7978" data-cmt-author="Tiffany Schettle"><i class="bi bi-reply"></i> Reply</a> <span class="btn-light post_btn small"></span> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="comment-item" id="cmt_7977"> <div class="comment-container"> <div class="comment-avatar"> <img src="https://pod.servicespace.org/pics/mem/blank.jpg" alt="User avatar"> </div> <div class="comment-content-wrapper"> <div class="comment-meta"> <span class="comment-author">Tiffany Schettle</span> <span class="comment-date">Feb 5, 2019</span> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/2197/-p-p-iframe-frameborder-no-height-394-scrolling-no-src-https-w-soundcloud-com-player-url-https-3a-api-soundcloud-com-playlists-653954910-and-color-23ff5500-and-auto-play-false-and-hide-related-false-and-show-comments-true-and-show-user-true-on-being/?t=showComment&cid=7977" class="ms-auto link-icon text-muted"><i class='fa fa-link'></i></a> </div> <div class="comment-content"> <p>We need to Be Mindful of the Impact of Travel on Our Planet ♡ It Contributes to climate change and the 6th mass extinction. All Worlds Are Within Us. And there is Always work to do right Here, right Now, where we Are. Starting with Creating a planet of True Equality and Unity. A planet where the children of All species are put First. A planet that has eliminated preventable child mortality, eliminated pollution and wasted resource, eliminated the -isms and generational trauma that plague us. We Need to See and Honor the Spiritual as the Seed of the physical. A Shift in Mindset. #ConsciousProCreation #OneBeing #OnePlanet #United</p> </div> <div class="comment-actions"> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/2197/-p-p-iframe-frameborder-no-height-394-scrolling-no-src-https-w-soundcloud-com-player-url-https-3a-api-soundcloud-com-playlists-653954910-and-color-23ff5500-and-auto-play-false-and-hide-related-false-and-show-comments-true-and-show-user-true-on-being/?t=showComment&cid=7977#addcomment" class="reply-link" data-cmt-id="7977" data-cmt-author="Tiffany Schettle"><i class="bi bi-reply"></i> Reply</a> <span class="btn-light post_btn small"></span> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="comment-item" id="cmt_7976"> <div class="comment-container"> <div class="comment-avatar"> <img src="https://pod.servicespace.org/pics/mem/blank.jpg" alt="User avatar"> </div> <div class="comment-content-wrapper"> <div class="comment-meta"> <span class="comment-author">Patrick Watters</span> <span class="comment-date">Feb 5, 2019</span> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/2197/-p-p-iframe-frameborder-no-height-394-scrolling-no-src-https-w-soundcloud-com-player-url-https-3a-api-soundcloud-com-playlists-653954910-and-color-23ff5500-and-auto-play-false-and-hide-related-false-and-show-comments-true-and-show-user-true-on-being/?t=showComment&cid=7976" class="ms-auto link-icon text-muted"><i class='fa fa-link'></i></a> </div> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Pico Iyer is on a Grand Journey indeed! I trust he will find his way Home eventually. I suspect Benedictine hospitality is part of the finding? }:- ❤️</p> </div> <div class="comment-actions"> <a href="https://www.dailygood.org/story/2197/-p-p-iframe-frameborder-no-height-394-scrolling-no-src-https-w-soundcloud-com-player-url-https-3a-api-soundcloud-com-playlists-653954910-and-color-23ff5500-and-auto-play-false-and-hide-related-false-and-show-comments-true-and-show-user-true-on-being/?t=showComment&cid=7976#addcomment" class="reply-link" data-cmt-id="7976" data-cmt-author="Patrick Watters"><i class="bi bi-reply"></i> Reply</a> <span class="btn-light post_btn small"></span> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <script> $(document).ready(function() { // Toggle between short and full comments $('.see_full_cmt').on('click', function(e) { e.preventDefault(); var cid = $(this).attr('cid'); $('.short_cmt' + cid).hide(); $('.long_cmt' + cid).show(); }); $('.see_short_cmt').on('click', function(e) { e.preventDefault(); var cid = $(this).attr('cid'); $('.long_cmt' + cid).hide(); $('.short_cmt' + cid).show(); }); }); </script> </div>   </div> </div> </div> </div> </section> <script src="js/story.js?1aud"></script>  <footer class="footer"> <div class="container"> <div class="row"> <div class="col-md-5 mb-4 mb-md-0"> <h5 class="footer-title">About DailyGood</h5> <p class="footer-about-text"> For over 29 years, DailyGood has been a volunteer-led movement to share uplifting stories that connect hearts and inspire action — all without ads, agendas, or asks. 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